Sighting in your Hunting Rifle - Green Top Outdoors Podcast Episode 41

Hunter and Andrew sit down with a local hero. Ricky Davidson has been long-range shooting and reloading for most of his life. Getting rifles to shoot is one of his talents. To do that, he needs to sight in or zero these rifles, which he has done hundreds if not thousands of times.

Ricky discusses the process of sighting in a rifle and gives up some secrets and pointers on getting it done successfully and efficiently.

Narrator (00:00:02):
Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. Welcome to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast with your host, Hunter Brooks.

Hunter/Andrew (00:00:13):
All right. Welcome to this week's episode of the Greentop Outdoors podcast. I got Andrew Napier with me today, and we have a special guest today. And his name is Ricky Davidson, a local hero of my local legend. Legend, local legend. Yeah. He's a, he's a man that has an answer for everything, wouldn't you agree? Yeah. We'll find out shortly, but I'm gonna put him in a corner here in a minute. Answer. Yeah. He's got an opinion on everything. No. So a little background for Ricky Ricky's been shooting, uh, a very long time, hand loading, a very long time. He's a fixer of, uh, I think you've, you said you've only found one rifle you could ever not get Shoot, right? Correct. That was like a Walmart, Remington seven 70 or something like that. Yeah. Yep. I'm not surprised on that. Those, those weren't, those, I'm not surprised they're not in production anymore.

(00:00:58):
Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but Ricky's a wealth of knowledge and local resource friend of the store is, is on speed dial. That's right. He is. Yep. Like I said, he's, he's one of my heroes. He's the man <laugh>, he's the man. He won't say it, but he is the man <laugh>, and if you ever doubt it, shooting a ability, go shoot with him. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody can bring you a group that they poked with a pencil, but to see it done is pretty impressive. I, yeah. Well, that's what we're gonna talk about today. Uh, we are gonna talk about, uh, getting your hunting rifle zeroed in before the season. Tricks of the trade, I guess, whatever you wanna call it. Insider scoop. Insider scoop. Um, Ricky's been doing it for a long time. You know, you and I, we've done it for a long time and we've encountered issues and we're gonna talk about some of those issues today. But from start to finish, we're gonna get into what to bring, what to do might be a helpful hint, secret mixed in there. Yeah. Some secrets and hints and stuff's. Right. First thing you go, Ricky, is you gotta come prepared, wouldn't you agree? Correct.

Ricky Davidson (00:01:52):
Uh, make sure you bring your staple gun staples.

Hunter/Andrew (00:01:55):
Yes. Staple gun and Staples tools. Yep. Tools. Tools, um, scope adjustment tools. Yep. Yep. Rifle. There's a good point on that. Staple in staple gun combination, because one without the other, because I've, I've done, I've forgotten the staple tools. I've done both and then, and I've, but I've also, and the next time I've brought the staple gun mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I forgot the staples. Yep. It's, it's a, it's a very frustrating experience. Correct. Whatever you plan to do, a Thumbtack Staples electrical tape, just put it in a bag and take it with you. Put it in a green top bag. Multi-use. Yeah. And then the key thing is you're, you're going to do something that's very important, that you want consistency the entire time, because it's important to be consistent because you want to know what that rifle is fully capable of doing. Hmm. Yes. And in order to be consistent, you gotta be able to take your time.

(00:02:39):
Right? Yes. Yeah. And you can only fix a consistent issue. Right. If you're having an inconsistent issue or a big group or a, i, you know, I shot in a rush and then I had all day, you don't even know where you're at. You know, it might take you three rounds of sighting in to get comfortable. Right? Yep. So be sure you get your list together in which everything you need to take. And so if you're listening to this, go ahead and a pen and pencil, pen, paper, pencil, whatever you got. Yeah. With a good eraser. Cuz we may backtrack once, we might might <laugh>. Yeah. And, and we'll touch on, we're gonna touch on muzzle loaders too. Yeah. Because that is quickly approaching the, that season is gonna be here, what, two, three weeks? Yeah, two weeks. Yeah. Very. Two and a half very soon.

Ricky Davidson (00:03:15):
Yeah. You got any black horn powder?

Hunter/Andrew (00:03:16):
No. Black horn pet. No, none. But you can call and check anytime you like, sir. That's right. <laugh>. So we're gonna go through, let's just go through what you need, the essentials of what you need to take to the range. Um, some of these things you may not necessarily need, but I would recommend it. Sure. You know, to be prepared. Yeah. And if you have a range bag things, I can stay in it. Yes. It's not gonna be a whole truck full or truckload of stuff. Yeah. I mean, some people think, you know, well that's, that's a lot of stuff to take for just doing one simple thing That is true mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it does make

Ricky Davidson (00:03:45):
A big

Hunter/Andrew (00:03:45):
Difference. Makes an exponential difference. Absolutely. So, alright, you got your rifle, you got your ammo mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you know, let's say, say whether you're hand, you got your own personal hand loads or you got, uh, factory. Factory mm-hmm. <affirmative> factory rifle ammo. You probably, in my opinion, if you're, if it's a new gun that you haven't shot before, I would try bringing multiple loads to try it. Wouldn't you recommend that? I would.

Ricky Davidson (00:04:07):
Yep.

Hunter/Andrew (00:04:08):
You're just not really sure what the, what the rifle's gonna like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it's good to reference when you buy the gun or when you're at home getting ready to go, what my twist rate is. Yeah. And that mic could cut out a little initial frustration. Yes. So if you can, if you're a fast twist or a slow twist gun, you can favor a lighter or heavier bullets. So you could buy one 60 fives and one 70 eights instead of having one 50 s and 180 s and maybe you didn't even cover your, you're not even within the rifle spectrum. Right. You know, start, you could, you could get that advantage at home. So do, do a little research on what you shoot. Yeah. Just know what your twist rate is. That that might save you $35. You know, one

Ricky Davidson (00:04:41):
Call green top mask

Hunter/Andrew (00:04:42):
Or call the store. Yeah, that's right. Yep. Whether new or used gun, all that information's out there. Yep. Yep. Um, next we got hearing protection and eye protection. That's a must. Must. And it's cheap. It is. And it does not come back. Yeah. It's cheap. If you lose your vision and lose your, your hearing Yeah. It does not come back. And it makes a whole lot harder to shoot when you cannot see it. That's it. Yeah. You're right. So just, I mean, that's a simple fix. Yeah. Uh, the $15 must that we sell and, uh, the $3 weed eat glasses that we sell. Yeah. And just something to have in there. The, the 59 cent plugs that you can buy just about anywhere. Yep. They're foam plugs. They're, they're keep 'em in your bag. So leave 'em in a range bag. Exactly. All right. Let's talk about rests cuz we're starting at the firing line. Okay. The rests are, we didn't bring any targets yet. We didn't, we didn't bring up targets yet. No. Just before we get ahead of 'em, cuz I'll forget them all the time. Yeah. I got everything I got and I don't have any targets that's, I even got staples

Ricky Davidson (00:05:34):
And stapler that's ready. This bag. You put everything in that bag.

Hunter/Andrew (00:05:36):
Yep. And you like shooting off a grid target. Yes. One inch by one inch or two inch by two inch square target.

Ricky Davidson (00:05:41):
Yes. Because I can shoot the intersection of the grid as another aiming point.

Hunter/Andrew (00:05:46):
Correct. Okay. And you hit with a boresight gun, not only do you have the 12 by 18 sheet, but now you have the 12 by 36 sheet and the seam across the middle. Yes. Or the staple across the middle. Yeah. Right. I think it's important too, that if you're sighting in and you shoot a grid target and you have a good scope or a magnified scope or a spotting scope, it saves you from walking a hundred yards all the time. Yeah. You can really read your one inch, two inch measurements off of that. Yeah. I think it's only before I got away from us. Yeah. Well at least to have something to shoot at, you know, in the color of the target. I, for me, it, it, I'm not, I don't like bright stuff. I like the simple black and white. Mm-hmm. Or like a red and white, um, the red white, the nra NRA targets.

(00:06:26):
I see the blue pretty good too. Yeah. Yep. Um, so bright stuff for me doesn't do it, you know, it doesn't mean it doesn't work for anybody else. Yeah. And a blank white piece of paper with, uh, you know, the shoot and see stickers I have, I don't have any reference on them. Right. I don't know if my radicals level, I don't know where my inch marks are. You just, you end up wasting four or five extra bullets fine. In the sweet spot. Right. All right. So targets, staple gun, staples, target holders, and backers. Yeah. Um, you gotta have that figured out before you go somewhere. You can't mm-hmm. <affirmative> don't, don't just, uh, tape. Don't just pin a target to a tree and shoot at the tree. Hey andt, let the wind blow it all around. Yeah, exactly. <laugh>. It's nothing more frustrating than almost getting it. And here comes a little gust, you target flips over. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Ricky Davidson (00:07:10):
Place the area, make sure nobody's around.

Hunter/Andrew (00:07:12):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Make sure there's no, no bow hunters out there or livestock or make sure the direction this

Ricky Davidson (00:07:17):
Time of year. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:07:18):
Yeah. What is a, what's a cow going for on the hook?

Ricky Davidson (00:07:21):
Uh, I'd hate to have to buy one. I think it's,

Hunter/Andrew (00:07:23):
I think it's upper seven, $800 on the hook.

Ricky Davidson (00:07:25):
Well, especially if you shoot it and it's the favorite cow. Correct. By being more Correct. It,

Hunter/Andrew (00:07:30):
It certainly pays the check <laugh>. And for all the people out there, a chicken and a duck are free range. And it is the owner's discretion how much it costs. That's right. So if you shoot your neighbor's duck on accident, he could tell you that's a blue ribbon, you know, state fair duck and you gotta pay what it cost. They're free range animals. It, it is in your best interest to look around and see what's out there before you start shooting. That's a

Ricky Davidson (00:07:52):
Fact.

Hunter/Andrew (00:07:53):
<laugh>. I don't know that to hard way, but I know a guy who knows that to hard way. Uh, what's next? So now we're sitting at the table. That's right. We're sitting on the line. We're sitting on the line and we need a good rest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I think the rest is, I, uh, I don't think people give enough credit. Good credit to a good rest. Good rest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, sandbags are fine. Sure.

Ricky Davidson (00:08:13):
Sandbags are fine.

Hunter/Andrew (00:08:14):
Uh, I'm, I'm a I'm a bad guy. I like that You're a prone shooter. I like, I like shooting prone too. Uh, it's comfortable. You can become one with the rifle if you're prone. You can Yeah. You can, you can become one with the recoil too. And you you's Right. <laugh> <laugh>. You can feel it all the way down your spine. You will. Yeah. <laugh>, there's no doubt about that. Correct. The 300 ultra mag will will wake you up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh, so rests sandbags are by far, I think I'd say the most popular. Yeah. And any definition, whether they be sand or, uh, airsoft bbs. Yeah. Filled bags or the leather, uh, protector bags. Yeah. And we style, you know, some style of sandbag. And then, you know, like Ricky, you've got an adjustable front rest that you a lot Yeah. Heart. You got a heart, a three leg, like an 18 inch, three leg rest. Yep. And then, um, you like to use a rear bag. Yes. Correct.

Ricky Davidson (00:09:03):
I'm a bag squeezer, so

Hunter/Andrew (00:09:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm, I like to squeezing the bag too. And I think Armageddon gear Yep. Is uh, is pretty popular these days. Yeah. The light shout out to arm. Shout out gear free shout. They're, they're pliable. If you were a bag squeezer, they're great for 'em. They're not cheap, but they will last a long time. They will. They will. Um, and Ricky's a, uh, right, right handed shooter and he is a right elbow bag user, which I am too. Yeah. Yeah. I've grown to be that too. It's really comfortable when you're sitting behind the gun, you don't ha it's effortless.

Ricky Davidson (00:09:30):
Yeah. It just takes all the tension outta the

Hunter/Andrew (00:09:34):
Arm. So explain that. So you're behind the gun, your right elbow is on the right side of the bag kind the chicken wing Yeah. Out.

Ricky Davidson (00:09:41):
Yeah. And you just lay that bag and you lay the elbow right on

Hunter/Andrew (00:09:44):
It. Right on it, just

Ricky Davidson (00:09:45):
As comfortable.

Hunter/Andrew (00:09:46):
And then you used your left to squeeze for squeezing the bag mm-hmm. <affirmative> to move up, down, left, right down, left. Right. However you want to do it. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Um, a lot of people just don't, they don't think about that. They, they usually will go just stick the gun on the bag Yeah. And go for it. But then, and they'll want keep shoving the rifle forward, back forward back forward back. Yeah. But if you're in the sweet spot and balance point and the rest, and all you need to do is just a squeeze, little squeeze, five pounds worth of pressure, you can hold that five pounds worth of pressure for 30 seconds, get your shot under control instead of almost feels like you're shoving the rifle down to hit the sweet spot. Then you shoot. Yeah. The rifle's gonna wa walk right back up. Yeah. And then the reco feels funny. Yeah. And you're not doing that every time. So, we'll all we'll, we'll be touching on consistency mm-hmm. <affirmative> all throughout this. So consistency again comes up where when you, wherever you place your rifle on your wrist, front and rear, make sure it's consistent with every mm-hmm. <affirmative> every time you do it. Because you want that consistency to be sure that it's what you're doing and you want

Ricky Davidson (00:10:42):
It to track back and forth,

Hunter/Andrew (00:10:43):
Back and forth. Yeah. You want to go into slide? Yeah. Yep. So, which leads us to, um, well, let's go right into Bipods. So Bipods another way, another form of arrest mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I personally think Bipods are best for, probably for a hunting applications. Yep. Yes. Um, you know, you can get by with that if, if, cuz you never know. You might, if you're hunting out west or if you're on the, if you're, you're walking a lot, you're, you never know what you're gonna encounter. And they're good for 3, 4, 500 yard shots Sure. Or a thousand yard shots if you're comfortable behind them. Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. And there's some, there's some very good bipods out there. Yes, they are. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and there's some very expensive ones out there. Sure. Um, the ones, the, they're more expensive ones. Uh, Harris is by far, I think you're best for the money. Sure. Um, they're not as rigid as some others like Atlas, uh, moa, MOA and all those, but they're, they're strong and they're consistent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. Uh, but you take the legs and you point 'em towards the muzzle so that way when you flip down, you shove it into the legs. Right. Not collapsing a bipo. I've seen that on a, you

Ricky Davidson (00:11:46):
Gotta load the bipo.

Hunter/Andrew (00:11:47):
Seen that on a thousand hunting rifles when a bipod flipped the wrong way. Right. And you're like, come on man. Yeah. <laugh>, that's all, that's all for show and not for go. Right. Yeah. Um, but there's, there's gotta be consistency if you're gonna use a bipod on what surface the bipod is setting on. Yes. Uh, I notice on your table you've got like a really hard, is it a hard rubber mat? Yes. And that's what you usually put your, um, bipod on because bipods don't tend to do as well up Right. On concrete. Right.

Ricky Davidson (00:12:18):
It doesn't slide it,

Hunter/Andrew (00:12:20):
It doesn't flex or move, I guess. And, and we'll get more into the doesn't movement doesn't slide post shot. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like you want to, we'll get, we're gonna get more into the movement of the rifle here very, very quickly mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, on the next, uh, rest, but, um, bipods Yeah. For working on an extremely hard surface. Usually don't, don't move like they should. Which will affect your accuracy and your consistency. Yeah. Yeah. And your recoil. And your recoil mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Feels like the gun's punching you instead of you moving with it. Right.

Ricky Davidson (00:12:47):
And I mean, I would probably get the best grouping out of a rest, get excited in that way and then put your bipod on it and change you zero from that. You shoot

Hunter/Andrew (00:12:58):
A hundred group. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you shoot, I don't know how many thousands of rounds you shoot a year, but you know, you're, you know what's consistent and what's not. Yeah. Based on, because you've tried all the different things. You've experimented with stuff and I by far you would say the way you do it adjustable front rest with the rear bag is the best way for the way for you. Yep. Best for you. Yeah. Comfortable too. Yes. Um, before we, uh, get into, well, let's go ahead and get into the next one. Lead sleds, pros and cons on that. The only pro to that, in my opinion is you don't feel the recoil. It's recoil.

Ricky Davidson (00:13:32):
That's the only one. Yep.

Hunter/Andrew (00:13:33):
Yeah. That's the only one they got to offer. The, the, the con to lead sled or cons to lead sled is, it's, it's several mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, they're 50 pounds. Yeah. They're very to train's one Yeah. Hurts your back. And you need, I guess to, to, to really get that thing, to do what it's supposed to do, you have to have weight on it. You need to buy disc weights or sandbags or something that bulk lead to put underneath that. Right. Yep. But it's not, it's not a rest that I would recommend anybody use all the time. No, no. Not for the gun sake. Right. Or for the shooter. Cuz the shooter pick up a lot of bad habits Yeah. Shooting off. Yeah. Because, not because it's making it an inch longer. It's, it's, it's making the gun to where it's not, it doesn't really fit you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're basically getting behind the gun, moving it around and you're squeezing the trigger. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're not actually shouldering that gun. You're not

Ricky Davidson (00:14:23):
Actually

Hunter/Andrew (00:14:23):
Shooting it. You're not actually shooting it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, the other downside to it is the movement of the gun. It's

Ricky Davidson (00:14:30):
Eliminates it. The lack

Hunter/Andrew (00:14:31):
Thereof. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's eliminating all movement, which it's not natural. Nope. And it also could, uh, hurt certain parts of the gun. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:14:41):
Puts stress on scope rings, action screws.

Hunter/Andrew (00:14:45):
Okay. Style recos. Yeah. Recos, all that. The

Ricky Davidson (00:14:47):
Scopes.

Hunter/Andrew (00:14:48):
Yeah. It's, it's a lot of jarring around. It's like just slamming on the brakes or like hitting a brick wall or hitting a hundred miles an hour. Yeah. Yeah. It's just blunt force. Yeah. Yeah. And you and the shooters don't see that, you know, the only thing you see and perceive is, man, this really does take a lot of Rico out. Yeah. It, it works as advertising. Well, you know, there's a, I think you can find it on YouTube, you can do a slowmo rifle site in or something like that and you can see the, just in a slowmo video, what, what goes on and the whip of a barrel and the whip of everything and Yeah. The shock and all everything coming back. I mean, it's pretty incredible. It is. And you're stopping all that Yeah. Right before it hits you, which is great for your shoulder and your collar boom.

(00:15:29):
But it is not great for Nah, all the timed screws and machine parts that are in there. That is right. Yep. Now, you know, there's uh, there's, there's several lead sleds that are out there. Cal Caldwell's probably the number one selling, but, but Caldwell makes some other great rest. Sure. They rock, they do the Yeah. The rock rest, the bag style, the bulls bag style rest are, are great. And, and we're not here to pick on them, but we're here to just present the facts. Yeah, exactly. Um, they're great for reco, they're great for pattern and shotguns. They're great for working hot loads for guns that you're experimenting with. Sure. But Sure. I don't think that provides your most consistent group. No. It's not gonna give you consistency. That's, and that's what we're going for. Um, alright. Table wise, if you, if you, if you don't already have a a, a nice table. Yeah. Well, let's find what, what's a nice table, Ricky, what's the real deal to shoot on and, and what do

Ricky Davidson (00:16:21):
You concrete top and what

Hunter/Andrew (00:16:22):
Do you do for a living?

Ricky Davidson (00:16:23):
I'm a brick contractor.

Hunter/Andrew (00:16:24):
<laugh>. Okay. So you're very familiar with, uh, 12 inch blocks in concrete. Oh yeah. Okay. But, uh, uh, probably the ideal table is rock solid with either an adjustable height or adjustable chair. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, if it, if it, let's just say that the only place you have to go is, um, is outdoors or like a national forest like that, and it's on a field mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and, you know, and we'll get into distance in a minute, but, you know, you only got a hundred yards and you don't have a table and you got like an old military field table mm-hmm. <affirmative> or an old, uh, folding table. Uh, you just gotta do the best you can with what you got. Sure. Yes. Make it as rigid and solid as you can. Yep. And, uh, as level as you can too. Oh, a white plastic card table can zero a rifle. Absolutely. If you, if you're not stressing the table as long as you can, you

Ricky Davidson (00:17:08):
Just load it with some weight mm-hmm. <affirmative> to keep it rigid.

Hunter/Andrew (00:17:11):
Yep. So set a SL on one side and shoot off some else. Exactly. There you go. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. Um, so, and then chair, you, you know, you want a comfortable seat. You wanna be able to get at the right height of the, I mean, how, how that's an, it's more important than you think. Isn't, isn't that right, Ricky? Yes. So explain to explain that a little bit on why it's important to be at the proper height of that, of that gun. Well,

Ricky Davidson (00:17:33):
Cause you, you're, if you're on the gun, you, you scoped, lined up Exactly right. Uh, there's no tension on your body. So, uh, that's mainly the, you know,

Hunter/Andrew (00:17:45):
Less likely to, to torque Yeah. Your rifle and, and, and squeeze too tight, I guess while you're shooting. Yeah. And the tighter you pull in, the more, uh, exaggerated a left to right movement is Sure. When you're kind of floating the gun and when it's sitting all, I guess when I'm behind a gun, it's maybe just the scopes, maybe a little below eye level, and then I kind of crawl into it to, to present it all, all out. But your, your neck isn't stressed. You back it and stressed

Ricky Davidson (00:18:10):
Feet need to be flat. Yeah. You be

Hunter/Andrew (00:18:12):
No tension sitting on the ground. And this is all bench work, not tree stand work. Right. Yeah. So tree stand, you, you may have to cross your legs and lean on your safety harness to get a shot. Yeah. Right. But you already know what the gun's capable of at that point. Right. Exactly. And I mean, the hunting situation presents itself when you're hunting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> each ones different, but, but, but you'll at least know what your rifle is fully capable of. Yeah. Before

Ricky Davidson (00:18:32):
All that you want press to do before you go.

Hunter/Andrew (00:18:34):
Exactly. You can blame a bad rest, but you can't blame a bad group. Right. If the gun can shoot. Exactly. Yep. And which most can, according to Ricky in the last 43 years, they'll all shoot Yeah. Other than one. They will. And we'll get into that because that's, that's the, that's the most, that's the hardest part of all this

Ricky Davidson (00:18:50):
Is, uh, yeah. That's the fun part. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:18:51):
Yeah. See, I think the table is key. I think it's really, really, really key making more important than the rest is how sturdy is your table and the table? Are you, uh, the table part of your rest? So therefore it's gotta be just as good as your rest comfortable. You push against shooter. Are you a sit back shooter? Like, uh, we have a good customer of ours who stands up and shoots and shoots pretty consistently to about 300 yards of sighting table standing up. Hmm. That works great for him. It's not for me. I hate it. My dad,

Ricky Davidson (00:19:18):
I, you limit it, you know, because Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:19:21):
And you feel like you're throwing your, your bottom half your weight all over the place where I want to just be relaxed. Yeah. Yep. All right. Um, so rests are good. Got the pros and cons of that. We got our target squared away. Um, the other thing I added was chronographs lab radars. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Some people like to use those because they're testing, um, hand loads or they want to, they truly want to see what they're doing because they're gonna, um, they get tur a ballistic turd or something made for their, uh, scope. Yep. That's not a resource for every, that's a resource for everybody. It may not be a purchase for everybody. Yeah. But that's a good group decision. Or a, we shoot the eight of us shoot together all the time, or we have a shared range. Let's all go in $45 a piece by a chronograph and buy a nice chronograph. Yeah. And leave it here. Buy an extra battery. And it's good to, what's the term for the sd uh, standard deviation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's good to know how your rifle shoots in controls hot versus cold versus first shot. Yeah. And fifth shot and hand load upper a grain down a grain. And when you get a turret made, it's key. Yeah. That to be within whatever the rifle's capable

Ricky Davidson (00:20:27):
Of. I mean like, like when I go hunting, I want to know what that first shot's gonna do. So I'll shoot a cold board today, cold board tomorrow and the next day

Hunter/Andrew (00:20:39):
On the three different, in three different external temperatures

Ricky Davidson (00:20:42):
To see where it is. So I know how to adjust for it.

Hunter/Andrew (00:20:46):
Hmm.

(00:20:47):
Because that's a real, that's cause that's truly cause that's truly gonna be your first shot is your cold shot. It's be your best shot. Yep. So that's, that's what you really need to know is mm-hmm. <affirmative> more than anything is how's your Cold war shot's gonna be <affirmative>. Exactly. And it may be, and it's something you could probably do in the same day if you brought a couple rifles to shoot, shoot it cold board at nine o'clock, shoot again at 10 30, shoot again at one. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the wind may change, the temperature will change some, but you're comfortable relaxed one shot, you know, group consistent, one shot group. Yeah. Yep. Okay. And some rifles like to be clean something dirty and that's something you need to know exactly when you're going into hunting. You know, does, is my third shot better than my first?

(00:21:24):
Yeah. Maybe I need two fallen shots, which we'll talk about the, uh, cleaning of that. That's one of the frustrations of muzz load. Yeah. So we'll get into that here in a little bit too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they got an attitude problem. They do. They all of 'em do. They do. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. Oh, I have never met a good one. <laugh>. Uh, the last two, uh, we talked about tools, bringing tools just in case you need those, bring those, um, spotting scope or a range camera, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's uh, I mean, you know, now nowadays, I mean it used to be just be spotting scopes. Now you can set a camera up down there, whether it's just a hundred yards or you're just shooting 500 yards mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it plays right back to your iPad and can, you can see Bluetooth. Yep. Yeah. And some of this software will actually measure the groups for you. Correct. Yes. And they're affordable. They are. Caldwell, I believe, shout out and Yeah. Calwell come back. Come back. Caldwell Bushnell just came out with a nice little long range camera. Yeah. And they're practically the price of a spotting scope. Yeah. So and so a lot of cases cheaper. Yeah. So, um,

Ricky Davidson (00:22:20):
We use 'em to a thousand so

Hunter/Andrew (00:22:22):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. And they're Bluetooth, a lot of 'em are Bluetooth to a half a mile or a mile, but they get good reception within a thousand yards. So there's ways of saving yourself time and headache of between every other shot, walking all the way down and checking your target and measuring it and doing all that where your cameras or your spotting scopes can tell you what you need to know. Yep. When on the gear I would, I always bring a Sharpie marker. Yeah. And mark out, if I'm wearing a target out, I'll mark out my old hits. Yeah. Where I'll, I'll label them 1, 2, 3, hopefully they're all together. It doesn't matter which one's 1, 2, 3, but, um, cross 'em out or have those little stickers that go over top of 'em and even just a plain white sticker I'm not gonna shoot at again.

(00:23:01):
But I don't want another bullet from a different rifle to go into that hole. Yeah. And then get mixed match. Yep. Another thing too is getting up and walking back and forth. It affects your, which is old, it affects your heart rate. Absolutely. Which is good goods, which you shoot under stress if you're shooting under stress. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yes. But if you're going for consistency, it's not good. Right. Correct. Not, not at the table on Saturday unless you are consistently walking back and forth to that. Correct. Shoot the deer. Exactly. I miss go back to my rifle. Come back. Exactly. But yeah, you absolutely right. It affects your heart rate. Yeah. And when you come back you need to, this is really corny shooter's thing and a health thing, but I know in the shotgun world you want to drink plenty of water. Oh yes.

(00:23:38):
You gotta be able to see what you're shooting at. Yeah. And your eyes are first thing to dry out. If your lips are chapped, your eyes are dry. Yep. And that's just something people don't think about it in the winter. They don't think about it when they're hunting. Yep. Cuz they're not sweaty thirsty. But when you're shooting and you're trying to get everything dolled in, make sure you can see 'em mm-hmm. <affirmative> and don't be afraid to go home if you're having a bad eyesight day. Yeah. Or let your buddies shoot your gun. Yeah. Cuz it's not gonna help. Um, I mean if it's, if if if, if today's just not your day at the range mm-hmm. <affirmative> pack it up and go home. Correct. Don't, don't make it more frustrating. Well let Ricky and know that. Yeah. Yeah. Even you've experienced that. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:24:12):
Cuz if I sit down and I shoot and I know if I'm have a good day or not. If I'm not, I don't shoot. Yeah. Yeah. There's no use of wasting. Yep.

Hunter/Andrew (00:24:22):
Right. Let someone else shoot for you. Yeah. Or save the $20 an ammo you're getting ready to blow and, and I know rains time is tight. Yeah. But it's hard to say I'm gonna shoot Saturday at 10 if it's raining at nine 30 Saturday and you're not in a covered spot, you know, with dry targets, it's not in your best interest to shoot. Yeah. If you're just jamming it in there, it's, you're not doing the rifle of good service. Yeah. So, by the way, and if, if anybody listening does not have a place to go shoot, go to where to shoot.org. Yes. And you can find a local place to shoot mm-hmm. <affirmative>, whether you're, um, in Virginia, central Virginia or if you're west coast or something like that. Central perimeters go to where to shoot towers, 50 miles, a hundred miles, whatever it wants to be. And it tells you rifle, pistol, shotgun, public. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:25:04):
Yep. And Andrew will give you a shooting lesson.

Hunter/Andrew (00:25:06):
That's right. I don't know about that. I'm still in school myself, but still in school. <laugh>. Okay. So we're now we're getting to the point we're we're we're getting ready to shoot. Yep. Now, um, distances a lot of people don't have the opportunity to shoot certain distances. Uh, ideally Ricky, what's the ideal distance to shoot to site in to site in?

Ricky Davidson (00:25:29):
Well if, if I go in my safes and pick up any of my rifles, every one of 'em are zero to 200 yards. Okay. That way if I go hunting, I know that gun's zero to 200 yards. Right. For me. Yeah. Um, most people hundred yards.

Hunter/Andrew (00:25:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Um, hundred people like to do the 75 and one 50. I don't like it cuz they're oddball yardages hundreds synonymous with rifle. Your scope clicks based off a hundred yards. It's easy to remember. It's a football field. It a hundred yards is consistent.

Ricky Davidson (00:26:02):
The information on the back of the box.

Hunter/Andrew (00:26:04):
Yeah. It's all based off base. A hundred increments. Yep. Yeah. Yep. But I'm with Ricky, my guns are 200 yards. Yeah. I would advertise, most people do standard calibers a hundred and magnum calibers 200. Okay.

Ricky Davidson (00:26:16):
Because most of the time from zero to 200, two inches.

Hunter/Andrew (00:26:20):
All right. Yeah. It's, it's not a it's point and shoot. Yep. Yeah. Which, um, you know, explain that Ricky, so if, if, if most people, they only have a hundred yards to shoot, but they want a zero, they're a gun at 200, how do you do that at a hundred yards? With or without a chronograph? Without, okay. And that's a trickier question. Yeah. Uh, I mean now you'd have to research, uh, if, if, you know, if, if let's just say you're factory ammunition and, uh, horn's telling you that that's it's 2,700 feet per second is your, that's what, that's what the box is doing. Um, and, and you're kind of going with the trajectory on the back of the box or whatever the, the numbers, the

Ricky Davidson (00:26:59):
Dropping in inches,

Hunter/Andrew (00:27:00):
The dropping in inches or whatever you run on Hornet's website or, or, uh, high. That's a great reason like set lock and load horney act. Yeah. Or just do resource. Yeah. Or, or if you hang with Ricky long enough, he'll do it in your head. He can do in, he'll shout out a number and he'll tell you which direction to turn the scope <laugh> and then he'll say, hold left edge, you know, make a clean shot. Boom. Yeah. But what's, what's your, you have an answer for that on how to, how to get good at 200 if you can only shoot a hundred.

Ricky Davidson (00:27:26):
Well, for me the best way to practice is practice longer distance. Yeah. And when you get the a hundred yard shot is like, I can close my eyes and shoot the layup

Hunter/Andrew (00:27:37):
Shot. Yeah. Yeah. I've found that the more I shot longer distances, the easier the short stuff did. And I mean, and that's, when I say short, I'm like, well, 300 yards is nothing. Now I'm zeroed confident. Yeah. And I'm zeroed at 200. Yeah. Top of the back of 300 done. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say without spending everybody's money for 'em, buying a small caliber rifle, buying a trainer rifle 2 23 or 2 23 or 22. If you had a hundred yard place to shoot and you like to shoot, if you bought a 22 that's normally cited in at 25 or 50 yards and you stretch it to a hundred, now you're getting the same effect as your rifle at 200 with a little rifle at 100. Right. And that's a big training tool. It's a big military training tool. Shoot, small caliber shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Yeah. Get really comfortable with holdover Yeah. And adjusting your scope. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:28:23):
You get used to your trigger.

Hunter/Andrew (00:28:25):
Yeah. Get used to breaking the trigger.

Ricky Davidson (00:28:27):
Put snap caps in, breathe

Hunter/Andrew (00:28:28):
In all that stuff. I shoot,

Ricky Davidson (00:28:29):
I shoot teeth, I shoot the TV all the time. Yeah. Yep.

Hunter/Andrew (00:28:32):
<laugh>,

Ricky Davidson (00:28:32):
Snap cap all the time. Yep. Just to get used to

Hunter/Andrew (00:28:34):
The trigger. It's good muscle memory. Yeah. Trigger control. Yep. But since you touched on it, hunter, going off the box, the box is based off a 24 inch barrel Magnum caliber's, 26 inch barrel. Yeah. It's gonna be pretty close. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:28:48):
I just, I just did a creed more just like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> guy bought and, uh, I mounted the scope, got it zeroed at a hundred, shot the deer at 500, just did the calculations in my head. Dialed it up, ding half off the box right off the box, off the box right off the

Hunter/Andrew (00:29:05):
Box off. So it's pretty close. Yeah. With no chronograph, with no way to check it. But that horny lock and load app, you can plug in all your parameters and it's, it's extremely close. It's as close as X ball, which costs a couple hundred dollars. Yeah. So it's good software for free if you can get X ball. Yeah. So it's good technology that's free on a app and if you're not a chart or a picture person, you can, the Deere staying out there at 3 97, you can scroll to 400 yards plugging wind in and it, it does a lot of work for, I never, one day I was shooting a thousand yards out at our place and it's one of those things you forget, I forgot my sheet and I couldn't pull it up on my phone. So I called Ricky, I said, Ricky, I'm shooting ultra Mag 2, 208 Grand amax.

(00:29:51):
I'm going a thousand yards, my zeros two or whatever. I said, what's the best guest come ups? You know, and then he, uh, I think it was like 30 whatever, 32 or whatever like that. I was like, all right, thanks. I hung the phone up and did it second shot. I was ringing the steel. Yeah. Yep. And that's just off top of his head, so Correct. I guess when you, when you're round it enough and you, and you start doing enough of it Yeah. You, you, you remember that sort of thing. Yeah. And that's one of your favorite calibers too, right? Right,

Ricky Davidson (00:30:19):
Man.

Hunter/Andrew (00:30:20):
Oh yeah. <laugh>,

Ricky Davidson (00:30:20):
That's my favorite.

Hunter/Andrew (00:30:22):
Yep. Um, will kill a deer. Kidding. <laugh>. Yeah. You hit 'em just right.

Ricky Davidson (00:30:28):
You might have to shoot 'em

Hunter/Andrew (00:30:28):
For us shot placement. Yeah. So after, all right, you got your distance, you got your targets, you got everything set up at your, at your range. Um, it's, if you haven't, if you haven't had your rifle bore sighted yet, um, bore siding is a pretty simple thing to do at the range. If you have, uh, certain guns, certain guns, you can't boar sight. Sure. Obviously you need a clear line of sighting through the bore. Yeah, exactly. Yep. Uh, so get into the, the, the, the traditional way of boar sighting, which is the way you normally do it. Yeah. Explain that real simple, real simply what you do.

Ricky Davidson (00:30:59):
All I do is just take a bolt out line the boar up with the target where I wanted to and then dial the scope to the boar.

Hunter/Andrew (00:31:07):
Yep. And you're looking, basically you're looking directly down the boar right down the bo to see in the bags. So if the gun stable to see the Yeah. The gun is stable, you're looking straight through the boar, you see the target and then you're looking up through the scope and you're gonna now move the scope to the bore to the boar. And that's, that's the simple, that's the simple's the simplest way. That's the most accurate way to do it too. Yeah. Yeah. The other way, that's something we do every scope that we mount here. Yeah. And most of 'em we're in a long time using a bogage or a muzzle gauge to, to dial 'em in. But everything I now is is just going back old school board site and lock in device, find something in the store. It might be a duck that's overtop of fish counter and put it on its head dial Right to it. Yeah. You don't need a target, you just need, you just need a, something to look at a leaf, a spot, a knot on a tree, something. It's key to have your scope level too. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:31:55):
That's the big thing right

Hunter/Andrew (00:31:56):
There. And they compliment each other having a boresight and level. So add that to your list. Get a level, bring a little level. We sell 'em here. They level, they're a little tiny. He used a carpenter's level. Yeah. Like an eight inch level. Yeah. We sell the little two inch levels here that fit on the scope cap. Right. On the scope cap. Yeah. That'll, that'll help you know that uh, that everything's level. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:32:14):
Cuz when I set, when you do the scope, I set the target up plumb to target.

Hunter/Andrew (00:32:20):
Yep. Grid for those out there who not sure plumb is a vertical level. Yeah. Yeah. Level is left and right. You can tell Ricky's a carpentry <laugh> Yeah. If level is left and right. Plumb is up and down. So once you plumb the target, then your radical is reading correctly.

Ricky Davidson (00:32:35):
Yeah. Then you get your gun level, then you put your scope on it, get level to the target.

Hunter/Andrew (00:32:40):
Yeah. Makes you shooting a lot easier too. Right. Cuz you can line your windage marks or the left and right side of your turret on the line so you know you're not twisting a rifle. Right. Yep.

Ricky Davidson (00:32:50):
Yep. That way you can shoot any intersection grid for a grid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> anywhere on the

Hunter/Andrew (00:32:55):
Target. Anywhere on the target. Yep. All right. Um, the other, yeah, the other option is using an arbor style bore cider that you, you screw into the muzzle or one of the lasers mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they, they, they actually do a pretty good job. Yeah. Yeah. They will. They're consistent. Yeah. They'll do a pretty consistent like an AR fifteens if you gotta use something like that for the laser or something that you don't see down the bore as well. Yeah. Semi muzzle loaders, a lot of 'em like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, muzz loader, things like that. Yep. And that will work for most part is what your vision will allow at any distance. Yeah. You could boresight it depending on the size of your bore at two or three or 500 yards. Oh yeah. You can, you can start at an extreme distance. Mm-hmm. You don't have to start at 25 yards.

(00:33:32):
Right? Yep. So, uh, going back to distances for those that cannot or that it, let's just say you don't have a way to boresight, you don't really have a hundred, uh, you don't, you don't have a, a long distance to shoot. Uh, can you zero a gun at 25 yards? You can. Yes. Yeah. Uh, a lot of people do it. Yes. Uh, there's a lot of, you got a lot of math or figuring out involved, you know, you gotta look at the, you have to reduce a lot of fractions. You do mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so yeah. That, that is possible. Um, if you cannot boite a gun and you're not sure exactly wh where this thing is shooting, I think most people are brought to a decision to make,

Ricky Davidson (00:34:17):
Bring it to me, <laugh> <laugh>

Hunter/Andrew (00:34:20):
Three, three decisions to make. Do I take it to Ricky <laugh> or do I figure it out myself? Yeah. Do I shoot it at a short distance first or do I just go ahead and shoot it at a hundred and see what happens if you can't do a do B? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So shoot it at a short distance first. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would always recommend that too because you wanna limit frustration and I think bingo, if you start shooting at a hundred and you're not seeing it hitting anywhere, that's you're gonna keep shooting. Oh yeah. It's gonna, you're gonna start aim differently mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you're gonna start to get fr the frustration level's gonna rise and

Ricky Davidson (00:34:53):
Spend a lot of money and

Hunter/Andrew (00:34:54):
It's a bullet was Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then you're gonna be packing up your stuff and Yeah. Getting, getting a little pissed off. And if you have a target calling me Yeah. Then you're still end up calling Ricky. But if you have a target stand or a portable target stand or portable bench and you, you're feeling good. Your buddy Bo cited, he's been hunting his whole life and you started a hundred on a 12 by 12 sheet of paper. Yeah. And you don't hit it. I wouldn't waste another bullet unless, you know, you yanked it or you sneezed when you shot it. Something extreme. Yeah. I wouldn't waste another bullet. I'd move the bench or the target cut it distance in half. Yeah. And if you get to 50, well they'll take your boor side. Yeah. You can check your boor side. You can do all that before you have to start.

(00:35:31):
Yeah. Yeah. And then when you, if you miss again, cut that in a half. Yeah. If you don't, if you're not hitting it at 50, you could shoot it over top of the scope and hit what you're shooting at 25 yards. Right. You could shoot off the top of the turret and hit what you want. Oh yeah. But if you're, exactly, I'm with you all the way you want to have a hole in the paper after you shoot, doesn't have to be in the right spot, but now you got an adjustment. Yeah. And going on adjustment, which I see is, is on your list. Ricky's different than most cuz Ricky trusts his shooting. Ricky trusts his guns, Ricky trusts his hand loads. Do not move one bullet, move a group. Yeah. You gotta move an average. It's cuz one, one great shot, two bad shots.

(00:36:13):
Yeah. And factory ammo and temperature and a lot of things relative. It's hard to move that one bullet cuz it's unlikely that you will be that consistent every shot. Right. And, and you know, just shooting with Ricky, uh, you know, I think the last time, I think I was zeroing a 3 0 8 last time and we were, I shot and then I think I went into my second shot. You didn't say anything at first and I had that round sitting in that chamber cooking. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> cooked it and, and I, and I I never thought of it. I just kept waiting. Then I think I got off the gun because I just didn't feel comfortable. I got back on it and sure enough it was a, a very in inconsistent shot. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and you brought up a good point, you said, man, that thing's been sitting in that chamber cooking from your first shot, it, it more than likely threw, threw, threw things off. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and it was probably close enough to kill something but it wasn't a group that you wanted. Sure. But yeah. But it added to frustration. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and if I had just done, if I had not done that, and a lot of people probably do that and it never crosses their line. Correct. That, that, that that's, that's what hap what's happening. Yeah. Everybody wants to bang and put another bullet in there and then bs. Right. It's,

Ricky Davidson (00:37:28):
But if it, you know, if you, if you do that and like the conditions change, I pop it out and put the new one, put the new

Hunter/Andrew (00:37:35):
One, put a fresh bullet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> uh, another reason why if you're not in a very shaded area, the ammo that you are shooting, keep it, keep it in the shade. Keep it outta the sun.

Ricky Davidson (00:37:47):
Yeah. Like when we hunt in summertime, I keep mine, I keep a thermometer in there. I want to keep my ammo under 80

Hunter/Andrew (00:37:55):
Degrees. Yep. Because it has the same effect as cooking in the chamber. Exactly.

Ricky Davidson (00:38:00):
Cause if you, if you laid it on the dash, it'd be like you adding two grains of powder to it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:05):
Yeah. No, I was gonna ask, is it warming the powder and making the ignition hotter or is it, is it the bullet weight itself?

Ricky Davidson (00:38:12):
No, it's just warming the powder. Warming

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:14):
The powder. Okay. Makes it eea makes it more combustive.

Ricky Davidson (00:38:16):
Just like when you shoot a gun hot mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the more you shoot it, a lot of times it's gonna start spraying. Yeah. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:21):
And I mean that's not, that's a proven thing. I mean there. Correct. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. That's not an opinion. It's a fact that if you leave these things out in the sun, whatever, um, it's, it's gonna increase speed and it's going to mm-hmm. <affirmative> me be more, which is not what we're

Ricky Davidson (00:38:37):
Going for. Yeah. Just like in the wintertime when it's freezing mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I keep my chamber empty, I keep a, a round in my pocket that stays

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:47):
70 ish degrees, 70, 80

Ricky Davidson (00:38:48):
Degrees.

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:49):
Right. And that's your first

Ricky Davidson (00:38:50):
Shot. That's my first shot. It goes in the gun. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:38:53):
Hmm. Now in a, in a more realistic world and come back and come back to Virginia with us. If you're a average deer hunter shooting average distance 300 ish yards and you walk into the field and it's 28 degrees in the morning at six 30 and you shoot a deer at eight 30, that bullet's not gonna be off the deer. No. And it's probably not gonna be more than two inches off. No, but you, the perfectionists want consistency. Yes. The average hunter can get along with shooting at Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause uh, an ambient temperature bullet. Okay.

Ricky Davidson (00:39:24):
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz most guys, if they can shoot a six inch group at 300 yards, they'll kill every deer they ever shoot at. Okay.

Hunter/Andrew (00:39:31):
Yeah. And swear up and down this XYZ brand in this caliber is the greatest shit that ever

Ricky Davidson (00:39:37):
Happened. And that deer was 500 yards.

Hunter/Andrew (00:39:39):
Yes. And he was this big Yeah. <laugh>. Exactly. You're about the one armed guy caught a fish. It was this big Oh yeah, yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:39:46):
<laugh>.

Hunter/Andrew (00:39:49):
Yeah, exactly. So you're, you're, that's a good shooter's perspective. But for the average hunter, the an ambient temperature bullet is okay. Yeah. Okay. And

Ricky Davidson (00:40:01):
I'd just like to take all the variables out.

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:03):
Yeah. It's, and it's keeping consistent. Yeah. You keep that bullet between 15 and 70 degrees, it's a whole lot better than 20 and 90 degrees.

Ricky Davidson (00:40:10):
So if I know, if I, if I miss, which I do, I know it's not the gun, it's on

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:15):
The shooter. It's on the

Ricky Davidson (00:40:16):
Shooter.

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:16):
Yeah. Now, do you leave your ammo in your vehicle the night before you go hunting? I

Ricky Davidson (00:40:20):
Do not <laugh>

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:21):
I know that, I knew that was gonna strike a nerve. Yeah. I do not. Yeah. And nor in the summer you don't put the ammo, you don't put the ammo in there the night before you shoot.

Ricky Davidson (00:40:30):
And if it's a hundred degrees during the day when, when groundhog hunting, I'll put ice pack under the ammo

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:37):
In a cooler.

Ricky Davidson (00:40:38):
In a cooler. Not against the box, but Yeah. Where it stays cool. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> 80 degrees.

Hunter/Andrew (00:40:44):
Yep. I think it's key. And, and a lot of, and I don't think so with modern scopes, especially modern advanced scopes, but it's never good to leave your stuff anywhere where it's temperature set stuff. Yeah. As it leads to rust, it leads to the potential for gas leaking and your seals leaking and your scopes. Uh, I'm lazy and I do it when I'll do it with a shotgun and maybe a buckshot load, I'll leave it in my truck. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> probably not to end the world on a 30 yard shot, but on a custom-built rifle I have with hand load ammo, I don't think I should leave it up to the temperature to decide whether I hit that deer or not. Right. You know, it's, it's kind of taking, being accountable for almost stuff. Well, and that's the thing is you've spent all this time, all this money on, uh, ammo, on bipods scopes, rifles, whatever it is.

(00:41:29):
Um, and it's now it's time for you to shoot. Now it's time to pay off. Yep. It's, it's time for it to pay off. This is the most frustrating, but the fun, most fun you'll have most fun. Yeah. Yep. Is is is getting behind the gun and, and actually pulling the trigger. Correct. And zeroing the gun and seeing what it's capable of doing. Seeing what you're capable of doing too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's the most important thing because the, the quality in all these products, it's all these products combined, they're gonna, they're gonna get the job done. Yeah. The most important is the person pulling the trigger, squeeze, squeezing the trigger. Sorry. Yeah. Not pulling the trigger. I thought you pulled it. Yeah. <laugh>. I

Ricky Davidson (00:42:04):
Thought you pulled it. That's the shotgun guys from the

Hunter/Andrew (00:42:05):
Left to Right. As hard as you squeezed, squeeze, squeeze, squeezing the, the trigger. Uh, that's the but that's keeping all the factors within your control Yeah. Is, is doing all the right things. Cuz you know, you at least at that point in the game, you have confident in your equipment. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're, I got a couple of hunters bullets, I got a couple of Ricky's bullets, I almost shooting a seven shot group. Well that's not doing anybody. You good. Right. You got inconsistent ammo, you're probably in a rush. The barrel's hot. You're cooking the bullets not doing Yeah. Not doing the deer service. Well, and and for, for beginners is all I can tell you is just get behind the gun and shoot. Sure. The more you shoot, the more experience you're gonna gain and the more you're gonna learn from these experiences like we have.

(00:42:45):
Yeah. Um, all this information you and I have, most of it's from Ricky. Yeah. But a lot of it's from frustration. Yeah. It's, I can't get this gun to shoot. You're gonna get frustrated. Yeah. And you know, and, and, and, and its, it's easy to just blame that scope or blame that mount or blame that Rick mm-hmm. <affirmative> gun. Uh, but a lot of it is is this, I think it boils down to fundamentals. It's old school, keep it simple, stupid. Absolutely. You got all your stuff with you and, and having it all within your control. That makes a, that makes a huge

Ricky Davidson (00:43:13):
Difference. And plus, you know, plus when you get confidence at shooting. Correct. Like I do, I mean like when I'm hunting, I mean if I see a deer out there four or 500 yards, I mean I don't have to shoot it, but I know I can

Hunter/Andrew (00:43:27):
Sure. It's within your ability. Yeah. And it can stretch your ability just cuz your confidence is going up. Yeah. I know with this gun in this load and this chart that I've proven in the two weekends a year that I did not go Kobe efficient in July or whatever. I didn't go play putt putt with my buddies. I didn't go out drinking. I shot my gun and it's ready. Yes. And then now in November, all I got is pick it up, ready to go and I'm ready to go. And it pays huge dividends. Especially when you have high dollar equipment. Yeah. And you have limited time to hunt. I know you have limited time in the summer, but if you took one half a day and shot your rifle, we brought all your equipment with you, got with a guy, knows what he's doing, done, taken care of.

(00:44:06):
You can get two guns cited in if they're efficient in three hours, you know, and you're good to go, you're done. Put away. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. All right. Well, so when it comes to the actual shooting portion, it's, it's, it's difficult to teach anybody's shoot through a podcast. Sure. Um, but, you know, stick to the basics, stick to the fundamentals, uh, but reduce frus to reduce frustrations. Let's get into adjustments because while when you're zero this, you're gonna have some issues. So your first, first shot, cold War shot after you've boresight is, uh, let's just say, uh, vertically it's, uh, six inches off. Um, you know, and you know, now you gotta make an adjustment when you, depending on the quality of your optic, you need to be careful how you make your adjustments. Correct. You don't want to just zip through that, uh, um, that turret.

(00:45:04):
Yeah. Or you don't want to sound like adjustment kids' toy. You need to click, click, click. Yeah. You need to count the clicks and be sure you're doing it right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now, now we would, let's just stick Tom MOA here. Okay. Uh, because we don't wanna get into amiras and I don't want people's heads exploding because my hurt, my head hurts us thinking about it <laugh>, it's makes more sense, but I don't want it to make more sense. Yeah. So we'll stick with the old man's code. Amrad makes complete sense. Ricky buys a bunch of 'em. We can all agree on that. I call 'em all old man scopes. Yeah. They're a simple radical MOA second focal plane. Yeah. So, we'll for, given the present company, we'll stick with his style of scope. Yeah. And we'll stick with saying that second focal plane is probably your best choice for hunting.

(00:45:43):
It's in my eyes too. It is ideal hunting scope. Ideal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, moa. So quarter MOA at a, at a hundred yards. So what that means is you one click will move it a quarter inch at a hundred yards. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Correct. So four clicks is equals one inch. Now that's at a hundred yards. That's at a hundred. Um, and $200 scopes track differently than $1,200 scopes. So there's something to consider while you're shooting it. Not that one is significantly better than the other, but they will track differently. And that's a fact. That is a fact.

Ricky Davidson (00:46:10):
Definite fact.

Hunter/Andrew (00:46:11):
Yes. That's the fact. Jack <laugh>. Yeah. You can write that down. So that's another reason, uh, why you get what you pay for, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, there's plenty of great $200 scopes out there. Oh yeah. Correct. You can see very good through them. But do they track their adjustments? Like, uh, night force or, uh, uh, VX six Luol, correct. Suski No, they do not. And a prime comparison is a Timex versus a Rolex. Yeah. You cannot make a Rolex for $40. Right. You cannot make a X that would sell for 10 grand. Yes. You have to keep all things relative. Yes. Yep. Absolutely. So when you make those adjustments, um, to avoid frustration, don't, don't overdo it. Just, just kind of take your time with it. Uh, be sure of the measurement. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you're not, if you can't quite tell through a, a spot and scope or camera, a tape measure with you, go down there, bring a tape measure, measure it, put that in your gear list as a tape

Ricky Davidson (00:47:04):
Measure. I mean, I probably do it different than most people. Cuz if I shoot aim and the where the bullet hits, you know, I put it on a target and dial the scope to the bullet hole.

Hunter/Andrew (00:47:16):
Yeah. Yeah. He chases the bullet hole. Right. Much like an archer would. Do you chase the arrow? Yeah. What's, that's a, that's an old school way of zeroing. Yeah. That way. And it saves you a couple bullets

Ricky Davidson (00:47:26):
Too. That way if your gun, if your load is good and um,

Hunter/Andrew (00:47:30):
And your shop is

Ricky Davidson (00:47:31):
Good tracks, then one, one shot you should be done. Right?

Hunter/Andrew (00:47:35):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So if you wanna avoid frustration, that's a good way to try that. Yeah. So back up, your first shot is uh, six inches Right. Of the dead center of the target that you were aiming at. So you then do what

Ricky Davidson (00:47:51):
I I put it on the bullseye,

Hunter/Andrew (00:47:53):
Put the cross here, back to the bullseye

Ricky Davidson (00:47:55):
And hold it there, rocks off and dial and dial the scope to the bullet hole.

Hunter/Andrew (00:47:59):
That's it. That's it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then, and it's, are you counting the clicks while you're doing that?

Ricky Davidson (00:48:02):
Nope. Because the clicks might not match what you're doing. Right. You can

Hunter/Andrew (00:48:06):
Go. Yeah. Right. So if you've got, whether you got a $200 scope or a $2,000 scope Yeah. Either way you'll see it move. You'll see it move.

Ricky Davidson (00:48:14):
You'll watch the crosshairs

Hunter/Andrew (00:48:15):
Move. And then, so for people out there experimenting or is new to this, try to do it that way. Uh, you might save yourself some ammo. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and frustration. And that's a good thing to do at close distance too. Yeah. I, when I get a little further, I like to move, I like to do the clicks because it's reas reconfirming or reassuring that the scope is tracking. Yeah. So if it's six inches Right, I'd like to go 24 clicks. Yeah. And I tap the scope cuz that's something you probably hadn't had to do in 20 years, but when you tap him Yeah. Feels like everything's moving into place. Yeah. And sometimes you shoot and make an adjustment to Ricky's adjustment. He may have already, maybe he went 21 clicks instead of 24 and he shoots again and it goes 80% of the way. He's probably gonna shoot another one to make sure that the scope moved all at the same time. Yeah. Cause sometimes the measurements or the adjustments don't all catch up. Sometimes that recoil jars everything into place. Right. So, and it's something you see in lower end scopes

Ricky Davidson (00:49:11):
And you can, you can test your scope. If it's tracking, you mean you shoot one, you dial it up 10 inches on a grid shoot again, if it don't hit 10 inches, if you got a good load

Hunter/Andrew (00:49:24):
And a good rest and you know the

Ricky Davidson (00:49:25):
Gun rest is not tracking all right?

Hunter/Andrew (00:49:26):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. So you can track it all the way around, left, right, up, down,

Ricky Davidson (00:49:30):
Whatever. And you can tell if you're on a plum line, if you shoot and if it's off to the right. And if there's no wind, that means your scope's that level.

Hunter/Andrew (00:49:39):
Yep. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (00:49:41):
Cuz it can't it

Hunter/Andrew (00:49:41):
That's true. Yeah. Yep. It can, it can be a pretty in depth process. Yeah. But for your 200 yard point and shoot hunter, if he can get that radical to cover the bullet or vice versa, he's, he's happy. Yep. That's right. And sometimes that may be using the 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3 4. Yeah. Sometimes that's holding the rifle centered and drifting the radical over. Right. Yep. All right. Let's get a little bit into the, uh, muzzle loaders cuz everything we've talked about so far, you can do the same thing with muzzle loaders and we're talking black powder, black powder, guns, um, in lines, whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative> and everything we've said so far, everything we've said center fire base, but it overlaps. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you e everything you can do with for muzz letters that we just talked about to go way back to the beginning before we get away from it, it'll do reo service that I say this, get your sling studs off the bags when you shoot and, and help with the natural flow of the rifle.

(00:50:39):
So placement of the rifle on the rest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because if you have a, so take, if you have a target gun, take your sling off. Yes. Take sling. Bingo. Take your sling off. Do not show up with the sling on it. Yeah. Yes. And take your sling off. When you get in a tree stand well you'll kill more deer and you don't even believe it. That's true. You'll knock over less water bottles. Exactly. You won't, you won't lose another left-handed glove because you don't know where it went. Yeah. It's, it's stings just like a dog's tail, like a great Danes tail. It gets in the way. Yes it does. But not everybody's got different resources. Sure. So Sure, sure. I like walking with a sling too. I'm not bashing the sling companies. Yeah, right. But get that stud off the bags. Yes. I've been yelled at and hitting the back of the head enough <laugh> I it's time for me to share that information to the stud is the stud belongs in front of the bag.

(00:51:23):
In front of the front bag and behind the rear bag. Correct. Yep. And if you're on a soft pliable rear bag, doesn't matter. Yeah. It's getting absorbed or, and a lot of people ball up t-shirts and sweatshirts and use the rear bag, which is fine as long as you're stable. Yeah. But when that front bag, you want to have enough gap with a rifle can slide and you're not ruining your $60 bag. Yeah. Caused, you're not shoving a stud in there. I see. But you got a two and a half inch beaver tailed four end rifle, you want to get all two and a half inches on that rest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you wanna let the gun level itself instead of you torquing it on that stud. Right now I'm speaking on Ricky's behalf. Get the stud off the back <laugh> I know from experience and it will affect your group.

(00:52:02):
Yeah. Cause you may hit the stud. You may not, you may hit stud, you may not. You're all over the place. Well, so if we're, we're talking about muzz loaders and we've talked about consistency this whole time. It is the, it is, I can't stress how important consistency has to be for muzzle loaders because these are the most finicky damn guns. There's so many factors. And I'll include slug guns in on this. Yeah. Yeah. They're in the same conversation. Cause they're in the same conversation and they're not fun to shoot. They're not, they're high recoil. They're loud. There's a ton of smoke. They smell there. Takes time to shoot 'em. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it, it just, it can be very frustrating. You've gotta take your time with this. Um, and then there's times where you're just gonna have to clean this thing. Oh yeah. In order to get this thing to shoot. Yeah. Now let's just go ahead and talk about expectations. Expectations for a muzzle loader with an off the rack, black powder rack, black powder gun that you have got maybe 500 bucks in everything. Well then, or in in an average scope. Yeah. An average 150 200 yards coat. If you can hit a cantaloupe at a hundred yards, that is probably close to as advertised. Yes. I would like to think softball maybe closer to a baseball. I was gonna go softball. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> baseball. But I

Ricky Davidson (00:53:13):
Want, I want golf

Hunter/Andrew (00:53:14):
Ball, but Yeah. Yeah. I know I'm the same way but we're looking at Yeah, yeah I do too. But for the average hunter or average gun, if you, but if you're shooting under two, let's just say you're shooting under two inches at a hundred yards, you should be happy Yes. To pack up and go home and say, I can go kill a deer with that. Exactly. Because your bullet is a half an inch. Yes. <laugh>. So if you got a two inch group, you know, uh, a quarter of that's taken up by the bullets hole. Yeah. Bullets size. Not to mention you're the one doing the loading and everything. Correct. Um, you know, whether they're pellets, loose powder doesn't matter to me. You know, they're, they, they both go bang. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they both shoot that projectile out of that barrel to that target. Um, I don't think it matters to me which one it is cuz they're both gonna be inconsistent in which way you load it, you know, whether, how Correct.

(00:53:59):
And it's up to the shooter. Right. If they want a, an as consistent as possible, 200 yard muer, it pays to weigh your powder. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it pays to play with your bullets and your primers. If you want a closest I can get it, I don't really care. I'm gonna go home with it. Two weeks, a hundred yard gun, whatever you buy, you can make it shoot. Right. Yeah. And playing with the primer is a big thing too, cuz you, you need, you have different ignitions mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the black powder gun is propelled. Yeah. Right. And so it, it is burns at once and then that energy is shoved out. A smokeless gun center fire, smokeless muzz in is a fluid ignition. It's a, it's burned over the length of the barrel. So it's two different ignition systems. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So two different primers, three different primers, four different primers. I know primers are hard to get, but for $7 a sleeve it's worth finding out. Yeah, sure. You know, and for a couple blocks of powder, it's, it's normally worth finding out what shrinks and what swells your group.

Ricky Davidson (00:54:55):
Consistency is the best thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Making sure you do the same thing every time. Every time. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:55:01):
If you load it with one hand and close your left eye, do it every time. Yeah. Just, just keep it the same cuz they do blow up. Yep. And you're, you're making a bullet. Right. You're making a a, a loaded round in the, in the chamber. And the key, the keys, especially to muzz letters is, you know, is taking your time and being patient and don't, don't be in a rush. You know, that's not an overnight thing. Yes. I've seen a lot of people have heard of, heard of a lot of people getting hurt, other people getting hurt because they just got in a rush and it's talking

Ricky Davidson (00:55:32):
On the phone

Hunter/Andrew (00:55:33):
And talking on the phone, you know. Yep. Um, left your ram rod in the barrel. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Um, double loaded it. Double loaded it, double charged it. Yes. Uh, whatever it may be. Very dangerous. So, uh, it's very, you know, you gotta be very, very, very careful. Yep. Um, I like to have the buddy system on a muzzle letter. Yeah. A loader and a shooter. Yeah. One guy is responsible for one job. I prefer that. But if you're by yourself, just it's, it pays to have it laid out before you get there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I got 10 bullets, I got 10 powder charges. Yeah. I got 10 speed loaders. I got one ram rod. Yeah. And you

Ricky Davidson (00:56:06):
Put it one load on the bench

Hunter/Andrew (00:56:08):
At a time. At a time. Yes. Don't work out of a big bottle of powder workout of pre-measured or two, uh, white hots in a, in a pipe cleaner. Yeah. That's how you, that's how you look. As long as you can stay consistent with you all the way. It's key. They are d all guns are dangerous, but they're dangerous because you're doing a whole lot of the sausage making right there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in front of it. Yeah. And then the phone rings. You're on speaker phone and your buddy just caught a 38 inch rockfish and you're excited about, hang on a second. I shoot. Just going kaboom. Yeah. You know, you don't and you don't know where it went wrong. Yeah. You can't backtrack where it went wrong. But as you load and shoot, it's good to put unloaded on one side, load it on one side, have it all laid out. What about some, uh, do you got any tricks or, um, secrets, Ricky, whether it's rifle shooting or muzzle loading, first cleaning, things like that. Anything that, uh, that you

Ricky Davidson (00:56:58):
Do that like a new gun? I would break in a new gun.

Hunter/Andrew (00:57:01):
Okay.

Ricky Davidson (00:57:02):
Because it makes it easier to clean down the road. Yeah. So I shoot five times, shoot one clean shoot, one clean for five, and then most of the time you're ready to go. Okay.

Hunter/Andrew (00:57:13):
You see new guns speed up as you break 'em in?

Ricky Davidson (00:57:16):
No. Usually, uh, new gun will probably speed up about a hundred rounds, give or take.

Hunter/Andrew (00:57:22):
And how, how intense is that speed up on an average gun? Middle road caliber two 70? Uh,

Ricky Davidson (00:57:28):
It could be 50, 75 feet. Okay. Some guns a hundred. Yeah. And you just never know. Some guns don't.

Hunter/Andrew (00:57:36):
Yeah. Hmm. But it's good. You, you're a five shot shooting clean. That's what we did with my rifle. Yeah. Five shot shooting clean. And hopefully you'll see the group size

Ricky Davidson (00:57:48):
Pull in. Yeah. You'll see as you clean it through those five shots that you'll be using less and less patches because it's getting cleaner. Getting

Hunter/Andrew (00:57:55):
Cleaner quicker. Yeah. Now here's a question from the fans. <laugh>, do we buy patches and cut 'em to size or do we buy the correct size patches and use the correct size Jack

Ricky Davidson (00:58:07):
<laugh>, what I do is I buy the next size under Jag and the oversized patch.

Hunter/Andrew (00:58:14):
Okay. To get a good cloth fit.

Ricky Davidson (00:58:16):
Get a big cleaning inside there.

Hunter/Andrew (00:58:19):
Okay. Okay. All right. That's good. That's a, that's a good question. It's actually a great question because a lot of times a seven millimeter jag and a seven millimeter patch are tight. Yeah. Tighter than you want. Yeah. Are you a two patch man?

Ricky Davidson (00:58:33):
No, I'm one patch one, one patch. I set my, cause I've got like 20 cleaning rods for different calibers mm-hmm. <affirmative> so I know which one and that's undersized. I use that patch on. Okay. And I use 99% the same patch.

Hunter/Andrew (00:58:48):
Okay.

Ricky Davidson (00:58:49):
On all the guns. And because they

Hunter/Andrew (00:58:50):
Fit, cuz

Ricky Davidson (00:58:50):
You've, except for 20 twos,

Hunter/Andrew (00:58:51):
You've built that gap in small jag, big patch. Yeah. Okay. Now with a muzzle loader, that's another question from the fans. <laugh>, do you shoot it dirty or do you shoot it clean? Or do you do what the gun likes and leave enough time to experiment?

Ricky Davidson (00:59:09):
Uh,

Hunter/Andrew (00:59:09):
As a whole, as a, as a whole,

Ricky Davidson (00:59:11):
You gotta do what the gun likes. Okay. Um, but you're going have to clean them. I mean, I use a wire brush with a patch on it to clean 'em because it, you know, the wire brush will get it loose. Patch takes it out, you know. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (00:59:27):
How important is it to clean your flash hole?

Ricky Davidson (00:59:30):
Uh, really your breach

Hunter/Andrew (00:59:31):
Plug. Yeah. Okay. And I, I've found that the hard way in we sell cleaning kits for breach plugs and sometimes the pipe cleaner. I've used a welding flux tip cleaner. Yeah. I've also gone to Home Depot and we got the same size drill bit. Yeah. And you work it in by hand. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that has worked the best for me. It gets you flash hole without opening it, but the inside of the breach plug as you shoot and burn and burn and burn, now you're lifting things off of the breach plug. And some powders require a flat breach. Some of 'em are concave. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think it's important and efficient that you have a powder in the same spot every time. Oh yeah. That you're hitting the same part of the rifling every time. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (01:00:09):
And I always have a extra breach plug anyway.

Hunter/Andrew (01:00:12):
Correct. Keep one on standby just in case two is one, just in case one is none, just in case. Um, I prefer a gun that you don't know until you get it. I like a gun that shoots dirty five to 10 shot dirty. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> maybe three to 10. So you can get one or two foul shots. You put it away. This is how it's shooting right now. And then the next seven to 10 shots you can load without breaking your back, without slamming against a tray. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's loading tight. My breach hole, I keep open every shot. I take that little drill bed in and out the breach. I'll clean maybe every five shots, but you need to get in a jam where a gun only shoots so good clean and you're at the extent of your yardage and you shoot a deer and you want to shoot another one or you need Ed deer's getting up, you need to shoot 'em again. I think it's important people know what Mus do on the second shot. Yeah. They're way different than center fire guns. Yes. Um, last question. Out of all the variables that are out there that can uh, be a part of, um, misses and inconsistencies, frustrations, whatever, what's the, what's the one variable that you think is the number one, number one cause

Ricky Davidson (01:01:27):
Of misses

Hunter/Andrew (01:01:28):
Or, or bad groups or bad groups or frustrations?

Ricky Davidson (01:01:32):
Um, wind.

Hunter/Andrew (01:01:36):
Wind. Okay. Now other than the shooter, I mean the shooter obviously is the best. That's given that, that's all I should have said. That things are consistent. You know, uh, if you take the shooter outta the application, what, what, what, uh, and yeah, I would agree. Wind is probably

Ricky Davidson (01:01:49):
The very hardest thing to do. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:01:51):
Can't see even, even wind can affect you at a hundred yards. I mean Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was stress

Ricky Davidson (01:01:57):
Stressed shooting in the wind. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:01:58):
And Ricky shoots in wind all the time. Yeah. He, he waits for a 15, 20 mile hour day. Good practice obviously

Ricky Davidson (01:02:03):
What he does. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:02:04):
Yeah. And he takes, normally takes his most frequent hunting rifle on the windy day. I need to know what this, I'm gonna be holding this gun in three weeks. I need to know what it's gonna do today. Mm-hmm.

Ricky Davidson (01:02:14):
<affirmative> and, and I'll take a wind meter, but I'll guess the wind mile hour shoot and then take the wind reading. Yeah. See how close I am. Yep.

Hunter/Andrew (01:02:25):
I think

Ricky Davidson (01:02:25):
It's, look at the grass or look at the leaves.

Hunter/Andrew (01:02:27):
We gotta know if you gotta tru you gotta trust yourself. Right. Exactly. Well didn you learn, you know, if you guessed eight and it was blowing 11, that's probably close enough. It's close enough. If you guessed eight and it was blowing 17, you Well, I'm way off. Yeah. I'm off the deer. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Ricky Davidson (01:02:40):
I got a wounded deer running somewhere. Correct.

Hunter/Andrew (01:02:42):
Yeah. So you um, I think your rest is important when you Yeah. When you get off the range and you get out in the field. Excuse me. I think people, everybody wants to be a sniper. Everybody wants to shoot a thousand yards, 500 yards, 200 yards. You gotta know what your gun can do. Can't out kick your coverage. I think people get so caught up and this gun shoots a quarter size group, 300 yards. I can't miss. And when you get in that tree stand with a half inch, uh, square tubing as you rest, that ain't a 300 yard rest. You need to be a 300 yard shooter to overcome the rest. Sure.

Ricky Davidson (01:03:16):
Well you need to practice, you need to prac, once you get your gun sighted in, you need to practice how you gonna hunt. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:03:21):
Yeah. Off the bipods. Put yourself off the bad rest. Yeah. Put yourself in new situations. Closed. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ricky Davidson (01:03:26):
<affirmative>, whatever. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:03:27):
And bring stuff with you. I always bring a uh, al eared an over the rail bag with me. I bring a rear shooting stick so I can hold the back of the gun up so the gun's kind of floating. It's sitting on the expanded metal as a tree stand base. Yeah. And that's probably a three to 400 yard

Ricky Davidson (01:03:43):
Rest. Is that a window bag?

Hunter/Andrew (01:03:45):
No, it wouldn't have window bag. It wouldn't be referred to as a window bag. But this is an over the rail bag. Um, but no, you know, I think it's big if you, once you get the zero in and, and, and you're gun is sight it and correct and you know what it's capable of, that's when you really, like you're right Rick. You gotta put yourself into those situations. Um, I mean if I'm, if I'm, uh, when I say still hunt, when I'm a, a stalk and hunt, if I'm walking along, if I'm gonna have to drop to a knee and shoot off off of a knee, yes. I've gotta practice to do that. You need to have done that before. Yeah. You need to have done that before mm-hmm. <affirmative> because it is, it is not easy to do. Yeah. Um, e even if it's, you may only be shooting 80 yards. Right. Still that's enough. That's and your heart's pounding. That's still, it's tough. And he's, you know, he is deer of a lifetime. Yeah. Yeah. You should, you may do better to lean against a tree. Yeah,

Ricky Davidson (01:04:28):
Absolutely. And also put, if you do that, make sure something in between your gun and the tree. Yeah. Because you lay it against that hard surface, it's gonna go shoot somewhere else. It's

Hunter/Andrew (01:04:37):
A slide differently. Yeah. Right. You still want that natural flow. Right? Yep. Yeah. So practice, practice, practice. And what, how do you pull the trigger? You shove your whole index finger in there and yank it back

Ricky Davidson (01:04:47):
If you want to get slapped in inside. That's

Hunter/Andrew (01:04:49):
Right. I, yeah. Yep. You want, you like breaking with the crest with the joint or the

Ricky Davidson (01:04:55):
Pad in between the joint and the pad. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:04:58):
Right, right there. Yeah. If good contact and Yeah. Cause you

Ricky Davidson (01:05:01):
Pull straight back, back, this, that, cuz you can squeeze, you watch the scope when you're shooting tv, you can pull it, you'll see it move. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> you got too much finger. Yeah. A little bit out. It doesn't move, it just, it might just tick it a

Hunter/Andrew (01:05:13):
Little bit. Yeah. And that's something that you can do at home for free. Yeah. Then you can really find out what you, and are you a thumb, a thumb up top or are you a thumb wraparound? Well, depending on what you're shooting, he's a wraparound with no pressure. Yeah. Yeah. See, I don't want, okay. You just rest

Ricky Davidson (01:05:25):
It. Yeah. I take all the pressure off of, I let actually let the gun kick me. Yeah. Because I, I don't want to impede anything it's doing. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:05:33):
I like the thumb right behind the safety. Yeah. The same way.

Ricky Davidson (01:05:37):
Only because a lot of guys squeeze. Well if you don't squeeze the exact same thing every time.

Hunter/Andrew (01:05:44):
Well it's again, consistent. We start about, it's all about consistency. Yeah. You have to be consistent and deliberate in, in that consistency. All the time. Ricky looks like he's shooting a shotgun, but when he shoots, his hand doesn't move and the gun does. Yeah. Like it safety back. Exactly. Right. So, and I hold it more upright like a handshake. Yeah. And the only contact I have is my bottom three fingers. Yeah. And I'm just leveling it, resting my thumb down, pulling the trigger straight back. Yeah. But everyone's different. Every stock is different. Yeah. Um, little skinny every is different. Little skinny sporter stocks sit different in your hand. Uh, vertical. Yep. McMillan style stock sits different in my head. And you gotta pay attention to what, what's happening when you shoot. Cuz if, if you're shooting something and it's, it's recoiling off. If it's if or if, let's say your knuckle's getting hit, something's wrong in yourself. Something's wrong because you gotta change something. Yes. Do it. Because if you don't, what what do you think you'll be thinking about exactly? You think about your, your knuckle, why it's hurting and you'll close both eyes and the deal's gonna run off you. I hit 'em. Did I miss him? You'll start flinching and all that stuff. So it's all about consistency.

Ricky Davidson (01:06:46):
Don't get to practice shooting with both eyes open. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Hunter/Andrew (01:06:49):
Both eyes open. That's right. I'm with you. I know. All the way. That's a, that's the shotgun in me coming out. I know. It's tough. It's tough for me sometimes,

Ricky Davidson (01:06:56):
Especially if you, you know, you shoot looking at one deer, you're getting ready to shoot that deer. The big one's standing there you can't see. Yep, that's

Hunter/Andrew (01:07:02):
Right. All he sees is the flash lose all the perion little buddy go away. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. Yep. I would say as a hunting tip, scan the field before you pull the trigger. Oh yeah. Which I didn't learn until I bought a pair of binoculars. I always hunted off the scope. I had a binocular and swung a gun all over the place. Have no idea how many deer I ran out of a field. But I know I lost a bunch of deer cuz I'd be zeroed in. Let me look around, swing around. And now my deer's gone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Damn. I don't, that's the one I wanted. Nothing else showed up but at looking around before you shoot as key. Yep. Because you may see something that you weren't expecting in your favor against you. It's, you might see the wind pick up a little.

(01:07:43):
You may not feel it where you are but you'll see it over there. Right. Yep. Oh, last one. I forgot to bring this up. Ricky. When you're zeroing in uh, variable power rifle scopes, uh, obviously a lot of people are gonna crank it up on the highest magnification, whether it's a nine power or 10 power. Right. 24 power, whatever it is. Right. Uh, do you also shoot that at a lower on a second focal plane scope? Do you shoot it at a lower power as well? Yes. Just see. Just to see, just to see if there's much difference. Okay. I forgot to bring that up Justin. Sorry. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz on second focal planes there can sometimes be dependent on the scope a difference in zero Oh yeah. Yeah. On certain magnifications. Yeah. So you want to shoot if, if you're gonna be sitting in your stand, if you got a six to 24 scope on your hunting rifle mm-hmm.

(01:08:27):
<affirmative>, I don't think you need that much. But if that thing's gonna be sitting on six power when you're hunting the oak, oak woods, you want to know what that thing does on six power versus 24. Correct. Correct. Exactly. And six powered 80 yards and 24 powered 80 yards. Probably not a big difference. Right. But when you're losing light and you see the deer, you wanna shoot on 24 power and you lose the radical and you back it down to 11 power. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it could shift your point. A it's great thing to check once you gun zeroed, once you, that could be your last shot, last thing you do is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, just check, check your different cutting half communications dollar back. Yep. And you may be talking about very small differences. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Ricky Davidson (01:09:02):
It's probably, it's probably not a miss on a deal.

Hunter/Andrew (01:09:03):
Probably not a miss, but you'd still good to know.

Ricky Davidson (01:09:05):
You still wanna know. You wanna know

Hunter/Andrew (01:09:06):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It's, that falls within your responsibility. Absolutely. And your second focal plane scope, all your adjustments, the one quarter inch, all that distance stuff is based off your highest power. Right? Yeah. So when you drop back a power, I always push you drop back to half. Cuz that's a, that's a measurement you can find out in your head. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you're holding four minutes elevation on 22 power, that's two minutes of elevation on 11 power. So you need to get comfortable on both of those. Yep. And on five and a half power, that's one minute of elevation. You really gotta be, it's a lot of math on the fly, but you gotta be comfortable at any power range. Yes. Because 22 power is awesome until the sun goes down. That's right. And you, you see it's hard. See and you're on seven power shooting 230 yards. Yeah. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (01:09:51):
Yeah. But yeah, but when you're hunting, I always leave it on the lowest power. Yep. Until you find what you need. Sure. Yeah.

Hunter/Andrew (01:09:59):
Dial

Ricky Davidson (01:09:59):
Up and then if you got time you dial. If not you shoot.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:02):
Yeah. And you know, through shooting ground hogs, a 36 power scope is awesome, but it's hard to shoot off the 36 power

Ricky Davidson (01:10:09):
In summertime. You won't.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:10):
It it's impossible. Yeah. Yeah. Cold, windy, clear days you can but I

Ricky Davidson (01:10:14):
Mean, I mean I killed a ground hog at 1150 and

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:18):
That's not 1150 in the morning <laugh>. Yeah. Am or pm. Yeah.

Ricky Davidson (01:10:22):
Probably close to 1150 in the morning.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:23):
1,150 yards is what you're talking about. Didn't let everybody know Rick. He's playing a different game than we are. That's right.

Ricky Davidson (01:10:29):
Yeah. <laugh>, you know, and I had a 32 power scope, but Right. The mirage was so bad. You dialed the, the ground hog was like he was jumping everywhere. Yeah. You dialed the power down, down all down, down. All of a sudden he stops. Yep. 17 power.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:45):
Yeah. That's

Ricky Davidson (01:10:45):
All you have hundred 50 yards.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:47):
Yep. But you trust the going, trust the equipment. Yeah. Yeah. Trust your hand loads. Yeah. Yep. Well Ricky, thanks for being here today. Yeah, thank you. Nailed it. No

Ricky Davidson (01:10:56):
Problem.

Hunter/Andrew (01:10:57):
Yeah, we'll have to bring you back. We'll talk about, uh, we'll get, we'll get more tactical Uhuh. Yeah. We'll make, we can talk hand loads, see some heads explode. You can talk break in, you can talk. Yeah. O js and sway

Ricky Davidson (01:11:08):
<laugh>,

Hunter/Andrew (01:11:09):
Corey Olas effect and all stuff. Yeah, we can, we can really get into that. I do that now. Yeah. Well thanks for being here, Ricky. Yeah man. Thank you. You took ti taking time outta your busy day. Um, and uh, good luck getting that rifle or mozz letter or slug gun cited in. Yeah. Um, check us out online, greentop pump fish.com and uh, send in any, uh, requests for, uh, topics for upcoming episodes or any questions regarding this. Anything we missed on this one? Yeah. Or if or if you got, if, if someone we need to get corrected on something we said and by all means, send send in. Great. We have been rolling before. That's all right. We're big boys. Yeah, that's right. All right. Thanks for listening. Yep.

Narrator (01:11:48):
Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast. Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle like, and subscribe to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more about greentop at greentophuntfish.com.