Countdown To Archery Season - Green Top Outdoors Podcast Episode 36

In this episode, Hunter is joined by Andrew Napier and Caleb Sutton. Caleb is a 6-year veteran at Green Top who specializes in archery, hunting, and firearms. Caleb shares some insight on getting prepared during the home stretch until opening day of archery season. He also discusses what is new in the archery industry for 2022 and does a “this or that” analysis on many aspects of archery.

Narrator (00:00:02):
Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. Welcome to the Greentop Outdoors podcast with your host, hunter Brooks.

Hunter (00:00:12):
Welcome to the podcast. Today we have Caleb Sutton today. Thank you for having me. How long you been here, Caleb? I greentop been here roughly six years, starting 2016. Has it been that long now? It's been a while, yeah. Six years. <laugh> took a hiatus. Yeah, I did take a hiatus for higher education. That's right. Yeah. You, you went to the o uh, Virginia Tech. Go Hokes. I'm back. Polytech. All dirt roads lead to tech, don't they? And then they lead right back to Greentop. <laugh>. That's right. Come right back. Come right back to Richmond. Yeah. Good. Well, uh, thanks for being here. We're gonna talk archery today because, uh, that's, that's kind of your specialty. Yeah, absolutely. And you know how many days till both season looking at? Right at about 49. So 49 About, okay. So it's un under T minus 50 days.

(00:00:54):
Oh yeah. You're well within two months. Yeah. Yeah. Now. And it's, uh, it's gonna be here before you know it. Which means it's gonna be expo too, right? Andrew? What's the expo? You know what the expo is? I never heard. Is it the sale base round bow season or the bow season based around the sale? I mean, really? Where does it start? Where does it end? The expo? Yeah. The expo's gonna be a big one. This shoot. Yeah. Both are coming fast. But let's talk about, I bet whoever's listening to this will not shoot a nice deer and bring it to the expo. I bet you they won't, they probably won't challenge them. I bet they won't. And challenge them to shoot any deer. Pull a Kip Campbell show up a spike blood on you. Yeah. And then head out for the evening. You plenty.

(00:01:29):
Yeah. Plenty of time to shoot to hunt shop. Shoot. Go back home. Yeah. Plenty of time. Plenty of time. Stay in the evening. Both. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Until about nine 30, it's gonna be hot. So, you know it's gonna be warm. Yeah. Until hunt, until you sweat. Go back, take a shower, please. For everybody. Go back to green top. Buy some stuff. Yeah. Go home. Another shower. Optional. And then you go hunt. Yeah. You don't have to wash the blood off though. No, no. I like, yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yep. I'm cool with that. Yeah. All right. So we're gonna talk archery because it's right around the corner. And, um, this, this is kind of geared towards anybody who already hunts and shoots mm-hmm. <affirmative> or somebody that wants to, or somebody that maybe is a beginner with this. You know, maybe they started last year or they've only been doing it a couple years.

(00:02:16):
Uh, they haven't, they don't have a lot of of experience doing it, but you're gonna kind of go over some this and thats, but first we should probably just jump right into, oh, before we jump into what's new for 2022, um, tell me a little more about yourself, Caleb, other than you're probably one of the, the, the tallest <laugh> biggest dudes in the green. He set up up. Yeah. Yeah. He's a, he's a pivot man for our offensive line <laugh>. Yeah. He's guard. And you can't, you can't miss him. He's in, you know. Well, there's some days you might find me in long guns, or some days you might find me an archery. That's right. Yeah. On the pi counter or on right up counter. But, um, no, I, uh, I just graduated from Virginia Tech and like Hunter said, I've been here roughly six years. I'm an avid bow

Caleb (00:02:58):
Hunter. Uh, enjoy waterfowl hunting as well as fishing. So, um,

Andrew (00:03:02):
Sixth Man of the Year.

Hunter (00:03:04):
That's right. Sixth

Andrew (00:03:04):
Man of the Year. That's the most important player on the team. <laugh>. Yeah. Caleb's. I mean, I don't need to tell him. I don't need to tell you either, but Caleb's a great help all over the store. Oh yeah. Everywhere. If you don't see him, it's cuz he is somewhere else. It's not cuz he's not here cuz he's somewhere

Hunter (00:03:16):
Else. That's right.

Caleb (00:03:17):
Or I'm hiding. No, I'm <laugh>. Yeah.

Andrew (00:03:19):
Or, or he and I are at McDonald's eating breakfast after a disappointing wood duck hunt. Right. That's, that's happened before too.

Caleb (00:03:26):
Oh geez.

Hunter (00:03:28):
So what are we, um, so what, what's new for, it's kind of late in the, the year for this, but what's new for 2022 in the, in the archery world? This's always, always new stuff.

Caleb (00:03:37):
There is always new stuff. And uh, I mean, I'll give you a rundown as far as, we'll start off with the bows. Yeah. Start

Andrew (00:03:43):
With the bows. You shooting, you look like a new bow type.

Hunter (00:03:44):
Well, you got a new bow. You look like a

Andrew (00:03:46):
New Bowman. God,

Caleb (00:03:47):
I think everybody's sitting here has got a new bow. That's role. Yeah. I have to go around the circle. Um,

Andrew (00:03:50):
This, it's three new bows.

Caleb (00:03:51):
I actually, I've been shooting the same bow for six years and this past year I opted to go ahead and order a Hoyt Arch seven Ultra. And uh, I'm very excited about it. I'm looking forward to when I can get in the tree with it for the first time. But it's definitely a new boat to me. It's, uh, new for 2022. Looking forward to it. Love it. So far.

Andrew (00:04:11):
Has it changed you as a human <laugh>?

Caleb (00:04:13):
I don't know, I just feel like campaigns in me, I need to run up a mountain and shoot my bow.

Andrew (00:04:17):
That's true. I saw you jogging earlier. I figured something was up. Yeah. <laugh>. That's a

Caleb (00:04:20):
Rare occasion for me to be jogging. I don't know where you saw that. <laugh>.

Andrew (00:04:23):
You weren't going downhill. Oh, okay.

Caleb (00:04:25):
Yeah, I was just trying to catch

Hunter (00:04:26):
Myself. Well that's been a hot, that's one been one of the hot

Caleb (00:04:28):
Though. Yeah. Yeah. That and the uh, the other two as well. Andrew knows about the Botox. Yeah. And

Andrew (00:04:32):
You're shooting bot tech's been selling really, really, really hard.

Hunter (00:04:34):
And then you got uh,

Andrew (00:04:35):
I have a 20 ones bow. I have a solution solution,

Hunter (00:04:38):
Which is a great bow. Yes. Anybody wants

Andrew (00:04:41):
Dollar for dollar. Solid. Solid

Hunter (00:04:43):
Bow. Anybody getting into it? You know, that's a great stalker. Bow. A

Andrew (00:04:47):
Little more cost effective. Yeah. Than it's solid as a rock does everything everything's supposed to do,

Caleb (00:04:51):
It's probably one of the most tuneable hanging on that rack up there.

Andrew (00:04:53):
Easiest. Yeah.

Caleb (00:04:54):
With their deadlock cam system. Paper tuning can turn

Andrew (00:04:57):
It spend less time in a press. Oh yeah.

Caleb (00:04:59):
You can do it at home. Yeah. Which we would encourage you to come see us so we can do it.

Andrew (00:05:02):
But a non BoTech for the most part. Absolutely.

Caleb (00:05:05):
Absolutely. Yeah. And you, it turns a process that could be anywhere from an hour to hour and a half to 15, 20 minutes. Yeah. So you can sit there with an Allen key and pair shat it. Yep. You can paper tune it. It's uh, it's cool.

Andrew (00:05:17):
Yeah. It's sweet. Be And you're on Team Matthews.

Hunter (00:05:20):
Team Matthews Vxr

Andrew (00:05:22):
Dxr. Yeah. Last year. Yeah. Team walking in the door.

Hunter (00:05:24):
No

Caleb (00:05:25):
Last's. Right. The v3

Hunter (00:05:26):
Of course it's a two year, two year, two years old. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't pass it up. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (00:05:32):
All black. All black murdered out.

Hunter (00:05:34):
Yeah. Murdered out

Andrew (00:05:35):
Your buck skin, bark skin and mine's, uh, half and half, half buck skin, half black. Mm-hmm. Yep. Luke has a cooler, he has a buck skin riser, black limbs. Mm. And I wanna be like Luke and I don't wanna be Luke, so I got black riser. There is a

Hunter (00:05:50):
Difference too.

Andrew (00:05:50):
Correct. Correct. <laugh>. I don't wanna be like him. I don't wanna be

Hunter (00:05:54):
Him. Exactly. There there's

Andrew (00:05:55):
A, so I got mine. Him mine and his together could make two solid colored bows. Yeah. So, and he's, he's tinkered with his long enough. He's kind of crapping or getting off the pot. He's shooting his new bow this year too, so. Yeah.

Hunter (00:06:07):
Yeah. I don't know if he's gonna, he, he's got a baby on the way. I don't think he's gonna get to hunt much.

Andrew (00:06:11):
Luke is setting up his new bow this year. Yeah. I don't know if he's hunting with his new bow, but, so if

Caleb (00:06:16):
You really want the other color option, you could, you know, I mean, he's not gonna be using it. He

Andrew (00:06:19):
Wouldn't even know you

Caleb (00:06:19):
Switch. He would never know.

Andrew (00:06:21):
Never know. He and I have same size. Like you just pick his bow up. Exactly. Yeah. <laugh> and Tank. Got a new

Caleb (00:06:27):
Tank's, got the CP 28, which is, which is a new 2022 bot

Andrew (00:06:31):
Tech. And Billy's shooting a new ho.

Caleb (00:06:33):
Me and Billy are twin. We got the same Arc seven Ultra. He's got the, uh, wilderness green, which is

Andrew (00:06:39):
Slick. It's, it's pretty, it's tough. Not really drab. It is just like a wilderness green. Not little,

Hunter (00:06:45):
It's not many. It's not many greens you'd call sexy. But that's a sexy,

Andrew (00:06:47):
That's a good looking both. It's

Caleb (00:06:48):
Good looking. Yeah,

Andrew (00:06:49):
Pretty rough looking dude holding it too, so Yeah. Makes the bow shine. No kidding. Both.

Caleb (00:06:53):
He wanted the buck skin. He was too scared to look like an elk from when he goes in Mexico. Yeah. So, I mean,

Andrew (00:06:56):
He's getting challenged. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah.

Hunter (00:06:59):
So, so what else is new? Um, and as far as Bowes go, you got the Hoyt, the RX seven is new. Um, you know what else, what else

Caleb (00:07:06):
We got? Matthews has got their, uh, V3 X and they've got that in a 31 and a 28 I believe, or 29. Um, that's a cool bow. A lot of your companies now are really trying to go with like an in line, uh, with the accessories. And what Matthews did is they have the bridge lock system. So you, if you have a site that's dovetail like your hog father mm-hmm. <affirmative> or, uh, I think you have a

Andrew (00:07:28):
Fast, I have, um, h h a, um, hha, tetra cetera, but they do 'em either way.

Caleb (00:07:32):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you can take that dovetail and it goes right into the riser. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So everything is in line. It's, you don't have, it's seamless. Exactly. You don't have a lot of, uh, weight on the opposite end of the bow. Uh, and people have been eating that up. Yeah. It's been, uh, comfortable

Andrew (00:07:45):
Works perfect with the tight spot. Oh yeah. It falls right in

Caleb (00:07:48):
The top. Well actually now Matthews with that, they've got the, uh, what do they call it? They've got their own quiver. Yeah. It's even tighter than the tight spot. Okay. Because there's nothing on that side to, you know,

Andrew (00:07:57):
Be away. No site housing in the way. But that whole bow laid on a table is only as wide as the cam. Yeah. It's not, which is like three and a half inch tall and hos

Caleb (00:08:05):
Got something somewhere. They've got that picketing mount. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> on the front. So if you run an hha or if you run, uh, there's another company that did it. I think it was, as far as I know, I think uh, black Gold and HHA both have options for the new Hoyts. And it's another thing, it's an inline system. Everything's becoming more streamlined. That seems to be the name of the game lately. Sek

Andrew (00:08:23):
Makes the shooting with Quiver have a lot easier. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Caleb (00:08:27):
Um, as far as Crossbows go, the Hoy or the uh, Raven R 500 has been a hot item. Um, as well as 10 Point has got some new ones out there, uh, that are really super fast sweeping the market. Yeah. Super

Andrew (00:08:40):
Fast. They're kind of taking over

Caleb (00:08:42):
10 point raven. Been neck and neck man. And when Raven came out, Raven

Andrew (00:08:45):
Pulled way ahead at first.

Caleb (00:08:46):
They did. Yeah. They were the first to do the real narrow. Yeah.

Andrew (00:08:49):
A hundred yard

Caleb (00:08:49):
Bow. A hundred yard bow. Yeah. And that was in 2017. And then 10 point caught right back with him. So what's

Andrew (00:08:55):
That little thing, little raven bow I saw you with the other day? It looked like a

Caleb (00:08:59):
R

Andrew (00:08:59):
18 Looks like Glock man <laugh> thing was like 12 inches.

Caleb (00:09:02):
That's the news. Daily carry man. Yeah. <laugh>,

Andrew (00:09:04):
It's, I don't,

Caleb (00:09:05):
Or he's got brought hits going on everything those

Hunter (00:09:07):
Yet. Nah, I have not. I bet

Andrew (00:09:08):
It starts to finish. It's 18 inches. Yeah, it's tiny. And the limbs cam forward.

Caleb (00:09:13):
Your limbs are wrapping over top of the ball.

Hunter (00:09:15):
It is. It's weird. Strange. I gotta check that out.

Caleb (00:09:17):
So that's a cool one.

Andrew (00:09:18):
Yeah. It's more, more everyday carry. I just

Caleb (00:09:20):
Wanna borrow it, shoot a deer with it, bring it back.

Andrew (00:09:22):
It's got a removable stock so you can shoot it like a pistol. Comes with a little red dot on it. It's,

Hunter (00:09:27):
It's pretty slick. I don't

Andrew (00:09:28):
Know if it's an awesome hunting mo, but I think it's sweet. It is super, super cool.

Caleb (00:09:31):
But if you kill a deer with it, you could say you kill, you're the man with it.

Andrew (00:09:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Not only did you shoot one with a pistol, you shot it with a pistol crossbow.

Hunter (00:09:37):
That's pretty bad. Yes.

Caleb (00:09:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Excalibur's got their twin strike, which is pretty sweet. Two shot double barrel. Yeah. Well it's, I guess you could say over under. Yeah. Call it over under for, since Andrew's here. That's right.

Andrew (00:09:47):
Yeah.

Caleb (00:09:48):
It's over under crossbow. Well,

Hunter (00:09:50):
Since, so since we're talking about crossbows, I mean obviously it's never too late in the year to get a crossbow.

Caleb (00:09:55):
No. Cause

Hunter (00:09:56):
It's so easy to set one up Yeah. And get one. You could be hunting with one literally in two hours.

Caleb (00:10:00):
Absolutely. You could

Andrew (00:10:00):
Buy most of those are turnkey by the time you walk out the store plus or minus an hour, you're ready to hunt.

Hunter (00:10:05):
And I mean, in that, that category has been, it's been always been popular. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mainly because, I mean, a lot of people are just busy, you know? Yeah, sure. They're just, they're busy. They don't have time to shoot as much mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, and they just want shoulder

Andrew (00:10:17):
Trouble. Yeah. They just need trouble. Whatever it may be that hinders you from shooting a traditional boat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It, uh, there used to be a bad stigma with shooting a crossbow there

Hunter (00:10:27):
Still. There still is. There still

Andrew (00:10:28):
Is. Yeah. We're

Caleb (00:10:29):
Gonna

Andrew (00:10:29):
That, but we'll, we'll skip on that for the next five minutes. And I have no shame in somebody ethically hunting with a crossbow. Oh

Hunter (00:10:36):
Man.

Andrew (00:10:36):
It's my father's one of 'em. Can't pull a bow back. He, he is really confident with his crossbow and he doesn't treat it like a hundred yard rifle. He treats it like a bow. He takes 50 yard and nn typically 30 yard and n traditional archery shots. He likes to bow hunt, but is not a bow hunter. Yeah. Which is a perfect person for a crossbo Wants to add standpoint too. They wanna add four weeks to a season.

Hunter (00:10:57):
Yeah, absolutely.

Caleb (00:10:57):
Pound to you. I'd rather somebody, you know, pull the crossbo out a week before the season than, uh, check it once than go bingo. Stand than grab a compound straight outta the Yeah, sure. The case has been sitting there for a year. Sure. And then go get a stand. You got less chance. It's more ethical. Yeah. Less chance of mam a deer. Um, so and

Andrew (00:11:12):
They hammer a deer. Yeah,

Caleb (00:11:13):
They do.

Andrew (00:11:13):
They hammer they do,

Caleb (00:11:15):
Like Hunter said, if you're the kind of person that just doesn't have the time Sure. Or the, you don't really enjoy shooting a bow that much. Yeah. But you want to get in the woods that extra month and you get the first cross

Andrew (00:11:25):
Plus or minus the first week of the rut. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you may catch, you'll catch the first signs and you see a lot of stuff in October. Well,

Hunter (00:11:31):
And that's see a

Andrew (00:11:32):
Lot of weather change, a lot of temperature change on pattern change real

Hunter (00:11:34):
Quick. Some people, some people may just wanna be out there, you know what I mean? Absolutely. That's all you need is just, there's another reason to just be out there. Sure. Is just get, get your crossbo going. Never know when

Andrew (00:11:44):
The, the ones I see being sold, I don't see 'em, most of 'em aren't going out the door as long range bows. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're going out the door as part-time bow hunters. Yeah. And you know, this, the, the typical guy, nine to five, I get two days a week to hunt. Uh, maybe three if I squeeze outta work early. Right. I just wanna be able to kill a deer if I see one

Hunter (00:12:02):
Now this is for you. I will say for any current bow uh, crossbow hunters don't wait until the week before bow. Correct. Just shoot your bow. Because some,

Andrew (00:12:13):
You could have string or cable issues or string limb issues,

Caleb (00:12:16):
Even taking it outta the case.

Hunter (00:12:17):
String and cable issues are always, they're

Andrew (00:12:20):
Prevalent every

Hunter (00:12:20):
Year. Yeah. It's always gonna happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But here's the problem. The closer we get to opening season, all that stuff disappears. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it's almost impossible to get one repaired because there's nothing available to repair. All the

Andrew (00:12:32):
Parts are gone. And that's at here and that's at Wicked Ridge and that's at Raven's. Everywhere. The parts have been destroyed. Distributors,

Caleb (00:12:37):
Everything.

Hunter (00:12:38):
That's why, you know now, right now, literally, you know, after you listen to this podcast, time to move, it's time to move. It's time to really see if, where all your gear is and make sure everything is, is working properly. Sure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, everything looks good. And if you're not sure, bring it by here. Let let the guys look at it and check it out.

Caleb (00:12:57):
Just give it a once over,

Hunter (00:12:58):
Give it a once over. Yeah. And just say, all right, here we go. Yep. You're,

Andrew (00:13:01):
And they're, they're pretty slick. The having 'em cocked, having a scope is all to your advantage, but they're not the easiest things to hunt with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's not a, not a cut on anybody who shoots a crossbow. Uh, even an able bodied man, uh, uh, guy who works 20 hours a week, 200 hours a week. If you are comfortable with the crossbow, like you said, it's so lethal on a deer. It is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It, it's obviously not a couple deer. It's, it's nasty. They don't, most of the time they don't take it away from 'em. Yeah.

Caleb (00:13:27):
Like Hunter was saying too, what do we say was 49 days before the season?

Hunter (00:13:30):
I think so. Yeah. My

Caleb (00:13:31):
String, uh, company that we go through Barn and Burner is three weeks out right now at minimum. Yeah. So like you were saying, if you are listening to this and you know that you're, any strings or you don't know the status of your bow, let's do it now. Yeah. Because the closer we get, the less I can promise you you'll be hunting with it open a day.

Hunter (00:13:47):
Yeah. Yeah. And well, we'd

Andrew (00:13:48):
Love to sell you a new one. Yeah. Yeah.

Hunter (00:13:50):
We can do that

Andrew (00:13:50):
Too. We can do, we can sell you a backup box. We

Hunter (00:13:51):
Can always do

Andrew (00:13:52):
That. Yeah. And when you leave the store, you really only have a 20 yard crossbo cuz you haven't checked your pins. You're not quite sure what your speed is yet. That 20, 30, 40, fifty.is pretty close. But it could be 20, 31, 38, 52. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And it's, it's always nice to know that if you're gonna take a 47 yard shot mm-hmm. <affirmative> Sure. Yeah. Hold a little high, hold a little low. Yeah.

Hunter (00:14:14):
Yep.

Caleb (00:14:14):
Because some people will sight that bow in at 20, 30 yards and then freak nasty. Walks out at 40

Andrew (00:14:18):
And you shoot right over his back. Yep. Old buck,

Hunter (00:14:20):
Buck nasty. That's

Andrew (00:14:21):
Him man. I'm looking for him.

Hunter (00:14:22):
Everybody's looking for buck. Nasty. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, what's next? Alright, we talked about crossbows.

Caleb (00:14:28):
We talked about what

Hunter (00:14:29):
We're shooting compounds. Mm-hmm. What we

Caleb (00:14:30):
Shooting accessories we can hit on some of those games. Yeah.

Hunter (00:14:32):
Where are some of the accessories out right now? Man, the

Caleb (00:14:34):
Crossbo scope game has gotten crazy, you know, with the Garon Crossbo scopes as well as the Burris

Hunter (00:14:40):
Range Finders. Mm-hmm.

Caleb (00:14:41):
<affirmative>. Yep. Yep. Push a button radical drops down, ready to go. So that's pretty wild. Um, a lot of the accessories are honing in. It's, it's

Hunter (00:14:50):
Pretty cheap too, right? Oh

Caleb (00:14:51):
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> we can definitely, we got 90 day lay away. 20%

Andrew (00:14:55):
Down day.

Hunter (00:14:56):
Yeah.

Caleb (00:14:57):
Um, but no, a lot of the, uh, accessories like we talked about previously with the new bows are kind of being angled towards those in line systems. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so you've got the pickets any amounts for some sites. You've got the, uh, some site companies had to make some adjustments because of the, uh, bridge lock system with, uh, the Matthews, um, really popular rest right now is, uh, the Hams Ski Epsilon, which is a limb driven. Um, hams skis have been known for years for being very bulky. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> very heavy. Uh, hamsy this past year has released the Epsilon, which is much lighter if you're shooting Really sweet. Yeah. Yeah. If you're shooting Matthews, they have a option that will actually go into the integrated arrest system that's on the riser. Kinda like your vxr mm-hmm. <affirmative> where you've got that little dovetail slot. Yep. A lot of people are taking advantage of that. Um, trying to think what else. A lot of new quivers, uh, Hoyt has redone some Quivers. Matthews has redone some quivers like we talked about with the, uh, inline systems. Yep. A lot of new stuff guys. A lot of new stuff. Yeah.

Andrew (00:15:54):
It's time to jump now. Oh, our inventory looks pretty good. It is right

Caleb (00:15:57):
Now. Yeah.

Andrew (00:15:57):
It's a good time to jump. Yeah. And it's, I don't think it's too late to it's too late. It's not gonna be too late to go if you go now. No. If you start getting set up, cuz we're getting busier by the day, but we still got plenty of time to, to give it towards customers. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you can get set up in and outta the store in a pretty timely manner and it'll still give you four or five weeks to shoot, you know, 20 arrows, 200 arrows a day. It gives you

Caleb (00:16:20):
Time. Get you, even if you, if you come up here and we get you set up, let's say right now you come pick up a new bow. You want the new Matthews, you want the new Hoyt, we've got everything that we need to get you set up. You go home, shoot 10 errors a day between now and October 1st, I promise you you'll be ready,

Andrew (00:16:34):
Rock. Yeah. You'll be Yeah. You'll be deadly. Well that's pretty much with no experience. That's if you started Yeah. From zero

Caleb (00:16:39):
Right now. Absolutely. Any of our guys up here would be happy to get somebody in the range and, and make sure they're comfortable enough with their, with their deer before they go home. So Yeah. I I'd say now is the time to jump.

Hunter (00:16:50):
Definitely.

Andrew (00:16:52):
Yeah.

Caleb (00:16:52):
So now we got to this for the versus that,

Hunter (00:16:54):
So this versus that. Yeah. This is kind of, uh, a bunch of different things that, that you're gonna kind of compare mm-hmm.

Caleb (00:17:03):
<affirmative>

Hunter (00:17:04):
To tell you to hopefully steer somebody whether they're experienced or just a beginner, you know, maybe they're been on the fence about some of these

Andrew (00:17:11):
Things. Yeah. Kind of a new setup moving

Hunter (00:17:13):
Forward and, and this, this isn't really to push anybody one way or the other, but it maybe it'll help make their mind up, you know what I mean? Cause this

Caleb (00:17:20):
Is inspired by

Hunter (00:17:20):
Y'all. Well there's a couple of things on there for me, myself mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I think, and we'll talk about that, you know, wrist releases Yeah. In the thumb releases. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, uh, what's the first one you got

Caleb (00:17:30):
Fixed? Blade versus mechanical? Broadheads.

Hunter (00:17:32):
So we've discussed this before. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb (00:17:36):
So you

Andrew (00:17:37):
Go first.

Caleb (00:17:37):
You want me to go first? You demand It really depends on

Andrew (00:17:40):
Start off with what you shoot,

Caleb (00:17:43):
But I shoot both. That's the problem. Okay,

Andrew (00:17:44):
So because, because they're equal. Well,

Caleb (00:17:47):
Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think that it really depends on what you're hunting and what poundage you're pulling back. You know, and if you, we got some guys that come up here and get setups done before they go to Colorado every year or they go to Wyoming or New Mexico mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And there are different, you know, laws as to what broadheads you can shoot. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, some states you can't shoot. Uh, expand broad heads. Yeah. Um, now as far as you know what I, like you asked me what do I do, um, when I was at tech and, uh, hunting really tough mountains, tough terrain. I shot a big fan of ball. I was shooting a ho, or excuse me, a uh, rage tripad, which is a really big two blade mechanical. And the reason for that is I didn't feel like tracking a deer up and down, down Absolutely.

Andrew (00:18:27):
Get all the blood out that you

Caleb (00:18:28):
Can. But if I get, like we just said buck nasty on camera, I might switch to a fixed blade just to eliminate that room for error.

Andrew (00:18:35):
But because if it's, if a mechanical's 99% gonna open 99.5% gonna open, if you, you are

Caleb (00:18:42):
Shooting the recommended poundage and you are doing everything in your power mm-hmm. <affirmative> 99%, it's gonna work out

Andrew (00:18:48):
Fine. But the fix blades cut on contact, ready to go all the time.

Caleb (00:18:51):
That 0.1% or 1% correct.

Andrew (00:18:53):
Is not the bend back of your mind. Yeah. Now that being said, um, mechanicals typically shoot much like your field tips. Oh, almost.

Caleb (00:19:00):
You're gonna gonna, that's another thing too with the uh, fixed versus mechanical debate is that if you're shooting a big fixed blade, then you're gonna have to take the time to either buy another pack of broadheads, buy a sharpening stone, or you, you're gonna have to take the time to tune it to your bow because because of the aerodynamics of the blade, it's gonna fly totally different. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Whereas if you went out and bought a pack of Hypodermics or a pack of Spitfires, they're gonna shoot like a field

Andrew (00:19:27):
You never have to shoot 'em. Yeah. Yeah. Screw 'em in and go.

Caleb (00:19:29):
Now if you're paranoid like me, I'm still gonna take one. It's

Andrew (00:19:32):
Good to shoot 'em. Yeah.

Caleb (00:19:32):
Just to check to make sure everything's good. Yeah. But it really just depends, like, like I said earlier, I mean it, it's just a personal preference thing as far as what you're shooting. As far as poundage goes. Most of your broadhead companies, if it's an expandable, recommend 65 pounds or more. Yeah. So if you're kind of on line,

Andrew (00:19:47):
Most people are hunting probably 60, 60, 62.

Caleb (00:19:50):
Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're on the line, it's not ever a bad idea to call it safe and get you a fix. Yeah. I mean, and a lot of people they buy, uh, ones that they want something that's the most field point accurate and there's actually been a few, uh, YouTubers or you know, um, social media influencers like seek one and uh, the hunt in public and different stuff like that that have uh, done, you know, ballistics gel test and field point tests, seeing which ones are the closest. And we have some of those, uh, options here. Like the slick tricks. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those are good. I think Billy killed a couple elk with those and I think Todd did too. And

Andrew (00:20:21):
They're little. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but they're deadly sharp. They are sharp, they're razor razor, razor sharp, super accurate. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And that's, and that's that will, we'll get into that later, but that's maximum penetration. Oh yeah. Versus speed. Absolutely. And that's more energy versus speed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> type setup. Yeah.

Caleb (00:20:36):
There's not as much energy being, you know, used to open it. Correct. It's automatically doing its job. As soon

Andrew (00:20:42):
As when I shot a recurve, I shot a fixed blade cuz

Caleb (00:20:45):
I didn't shot mon didn't you?

Andrew (00:20:46):
Uh, yeah. G five because I didn't wanna lose anything. I wanted a sharp, basic traditional looking brought in mm-hmm. <affirmative> that was cut on contact cuz I didn't know if I'd get a pass through and I didn't wanna give up any energy Absolutely. That I would have and a 47 pound bow. Yeah.

Caleb (00:20:59):
Yeah. For sure. The other one that I'm a big fan of as far as the fixed plays go is the Q 80 exodus, which they are Q ad is actually based out of Madison Heights.

Andrew (00:21:07):
Yeah. They're a Virginia company. So

Caleb (00:21:08):
They're kind of local. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and they have a great broadhead and some of those, like I said, those social media influencers that um, have done those tests, Q A D was on top. Cool. That was the number one. Yeah. When you get down to the uh, mechanicals, uh, I'm a rage guy,

Andrew (00:21:24):
Which people might, I prefer a spitfire. Really? Yeah. Even though you're losing more energy to open 'em.

Caleb (00:21:29):
I'm a big fan of

Andrew (00:21:29):
Spitfire. I just, I know what they do on a deal. I've killed deal with rage too. But that Spitfire is bad news. That double cross where it's two rage type broadheads and two grim reaper mm-hmm. Type

Caleb (00:21:38):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Oh yeah. He's using that internal locking system. No rubber bands, no collars. Yeah. Yep. You don't have to worry about anything like that. They, uh, Garin used to hunt with those things and would like leave

Andrew (00:21:48):
Holes.

Caleb (00:21:49):
Grim reapers. No. The uh, double

Andrew (00:21:51):
Pearls. Oh yeah.

Caleb (00:21:51):
Yeah. Those were nasty.

Andrew (00:21:53):
They're bad news man.

Caleb (00:21:54):
Luke shoots the grim reapers. They're good

Andrew (00:21:56):
Too. Yeah. Swears my mm-hmm.

Caleb (00:21:57):
<affirmative> Schwers are good. Mm-hmm <affirmative> a lot of good options at this. They're

Andrew (00:22:00):
They're more field point like Yeah. In their flight and if your boat is tuned properly, they'll shoot either. Exactly. Yeah. It's all, it kind of comes down to the whole, the total process. The whole package.

Caleb (00:22:10):
Of course they, I'm with you.

Andrew (00:22:12):
Yep. But it's something big you wanna shoot cut on contact.

Caleb (00:22:15):
Yeah. It's kind of more worth

Andrew (00:22:16):
Where it's penetration game. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb (00:22:18):
I would just eliminate that room for error before anything else goes wrong. Just <laugh>.

Andrew (00:22:23):
Yeah. And you talked about your rest. Uh, just for the people who know people who don't, what would be a big selling point between a Q A D and a hams ski and a Worcester Biscuit or, uh, their, the trophy ridge equivalent. Okay. Of oyster biscuit. Like it, I know some arrow contact. Mm-hmm There's some Fletcher contact, but if you have two or three that are all but identical, why would one would go one over the other?

Caleb (00:22:49):
Well we can kind of get into drop away versus Yeah. Versus wor biscuit first. Cuz a lot of people don't really know, you know, what are they gaining when they're buying a drop? What's keeping them from buying the brand new hoy out there and throwing a WHI biscuit on it. Yeah. And you can still go kill a deer with that. Sure. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're spending the amount of money that some of these new bows costs and you want to get the performance that they're rated for, you gotta get the drop away, get the

Andrew (00:23:11):
Right accessories.

Caleb (00:23:12):
And the reason in behind that is consistency. You know, with the whisker biscuit, your F flushings are gonna be going through the bow a different way every single time. There's no consistency there. But at the same time as your arrow continues to go down range, it's gonna correct itself with that con lack of consistency on a whisker biscuit. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But with the drop aways, you're opening up doors for tuning capabilities, you know, you're gonna notice your group's starting to tighten. Broadhead tuning's gonna be less of a hassle. Especially if you like fixed blades, it's gonna be less of a hassle. Um, when you get down into comparing. Okay, well you know, I'll get a drop away. But you've got the hams skis here, you've got the Q Adss here. What do I go with? Um, the Q adss are have been crazy popular here at Green Top.

(00:23:54):
Ever since I started working here. They've been doing really well and I shot one for years. You shoot one right now, don't you? Yeah, I'm shooting one. Yeah, they're great. Um, they're cable driven. So when you compare, you know, the hams skis to the Qs, you're looking at a cable driven rest versus a limb driven rest. Well what's a limb driven rest? Limb driven rest is actually a cord that stretches from the rest all the way to the limb. And while your bow is at rest your launcher down and as you draw the bow back, the launcher raises to 90 degrees and when you shoot it gets out of the way.

Andrew (00:24:24):
It works kind of the opposite. Can

Caleb (00:24:26):
It's the opposite.

Andrew (00:24:27):
Yeah. Because that, that string is tight when the bows at rest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then the string loosens up as the bow loosens as the bogue is tighter. Whereas

Caleb (00:24:33):
With the Q A D Yeah, it's the opposite. Yeah. So you with the Q A D or uh, trophy ridge or some other kind of drop away rip cord's. Another good example, um, as you draw your bow back, the downward driving cable on your bow is dragging that cord down T and then brings the rest of 90 degrees. The action of you shooting launches that launcher down and your arrow flies outta the bow. So like you said, when you compare, you know the hams skis to the Qs, um, you're looking at, I kind of tell people, and this is a, this is Billy Nicar speaking to me, um, the hams skis, you can repair those on the fly. You don't need a bow press, you know, so if you're going into New Mexico, you're going to Colorado, you're hunting a lot of national forest in Virginia, you're camping, backpacking deep three four, you're deep in the woods. Yeah. Yeah. You can take a shoe lace off your boot and make it work. You don't have to have a bow press, you don't have to have a bow tech, you don't have to come up to green top. You can fix it yourself so you can still hunt. Whereas with Q A D, if something goes wrong, you will have to either come up here or if you have a bow, press of the house or something and press the bow to fix it.

Andrew (00:25:36):
So a little more intricate repair. Yeah. Yeah. But in theory, both outperforming the whi biscuit one, it comes to arrow contact and downrange and consistently. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. Just cuz you're not only are you hitting the same spot, you're not hitting anything. Yeah. You're flying right through the rest. Yeah. Arrow's

Caleb (00:25:53):
Coming outta the boat at a level point just as if nothing was touching it. Okay. And it's uh, flying. True. So, so

Andrew (00:25:59):
As that arrow goes out, what do you use to send it down Range. Are you a wrist strap? Are you a thumb button? Are you a

Caleb (00:26:06):
Tight We just

Andrew (00:26:07):
Bite the de loop and just rip it back with your teeth. Are you, you know,

Caleb (00:26:10):
I'm in between 'em too. In between a wrist style and a thumb button right now. Yeah, we were talking about that before we started recording. I'll start with you. What are you shooting this year?

Andrew (00:26:18):
I'm shooting a true ball. I don't even know the model. It's thumb button. Gotcha. Um, it was the most expensive. It's the one I liked. It was the most expensive one they had. It was not cheap. But if it's my hand Right. It's nice and heavy, you can clip it, leave it on a string, walk away from it, hang it in the tree. When I need to go, I can play on my phone. I can look around and keep my hands in my pocket if it's cold. And when it's time to shoot I grab the release. Go. Yeah. Nothing on my wrist, nothing clinking on the metal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and a tree stand. Nothing in the way other than me finding it and pulling it back and hitting in my thumb off it goes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Caleb (00:26:51):
I tell a lot of couple

Andrew (00:26:52):
I've shot a wrist release just as good. I just felt the need to try something new bo I just got something new changing

Caleb (00:26:57):
Up. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (00:26:58):
But there is a shooting difference. There is. And a whole lot of people shoot one better than the other. Your

Caleb (00:27:02):
Anchor is more natural with a thumb button

Andrew (00:27:04):
The bottom, the back of my jaw boat. Yes. Yeah. It seems like it falls in a place. It's more

Caleb (00:27:09):
Natural. Yep. I tell a lot of customers, uh, I give them an example as far as like you were just talking about having the release already hooked on the bow. One of the first bow kills I ever had, I had it on camera and I was shooting a wrist style release and as the buck walked out it took me probably like 15 or 20 seconds to get it to find the de to get it on the de Cause I'm sitting there like looking at the deer and clipping. Whereas if you have a thumb button, you just grab the bow. Yeah. Grab a release and go. Yep. But, um, no, I'm in between releases right now and trying to make a decision before October 1st.

Andrew (00:27:38):
But you shoot a stalowski

Caleb (00:27:40):
I shoot a stanski shoot off.

Andrew (00:27:42):
Okay. Which is a four finger. It's a four

Caleb (00:27:43):
Finger thumb button.

Andrew (00:27:44):
Thumb button. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. And there's, there's three finger and four finger that pretty much depends on how you hold your hand. Yeah. It's, I like the three mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you shoot a four finger with three fingers. Don't you have one behind? No. Do you have it on a

Caleb (00:27:55):
Four foot? I keep all four on there.

Hunter (00:27:57):
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (00:27:58):
I'm shooting mine. Mine's a three, but I'm only shooting a two. I was just the, the like, uh, fastball fingers.

Hunter (00:28:03):
Yeah. And I was stuck between trying a thumb release or not. I, cause I always shot a wrist mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I said, well I'm gonna do it. Cause I think I watched, I don't know, I think it was a John Dudley video or something like that when he was explaining them or something mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna try one. So I tried 'em and it, and it shot it good. Yeah. But, uh, I, for some reason I think I, I still shoot a wrist from

Andrew (00:28:26):
You didn't shoot it better.

Hunter (00:28:27):
Yeah. It's more

Andrew (00:28:27):
Consistent. I think that's where Caleb's at. He likes the thumb, but he shoots a wrist better. I

Hunter (00:28:31):
Like it. I, I like the convenience of it, but I, I, I just, I, I think my confidence is better with a wrist and it's

Andrew (00:28:37):
More gun

Hunter (00:28:38):
Like. And there's it is and it's less, well it's less panic too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when you're, when you're shooting from

Caleb (00:28:43):
One thing I'm struggling with right now, I don't

Andrew (00:28:45):
Really hit it with my thumb. I just close my thumb and it, my joint squeezes it.

Caleb (00:28:50):
Yeah. Tighten your pinch your back muscles together and it's like almost like bad

Andrew (00:28:53):
Tension. Exactly. Yep. So I'm just kind

Hunter (00:28:55):
Of, I'm double joint so I can't

Andrew (00:28:56):
Say it doesn't do any good. Yeah. <laugh> and a wrist release feels a lot more like a rifle trigger. Yeah. So more a a three season deer hunter would probably prefer the wrist release. Right. And then some of those you can adjust 'em down to like a two pound break. They're clean breaks and they're, they can get pricey too, but they're significantly cheaper than a thumb button. Yeah. And if you're playing heat to play with a $400 release or 300 release and ah, this ain't for me and now it's worth a hundred dollars use. Right. You know, you don't wanna kind of wanna make sure that I was fortunate Tank has one I could play with his first. Yeah. <affirmative>. Um, the, I like the thumb. I like the idea of leaving it on the bow. That's a selling point for me. Yeah. Yeah. I just can't, and the last one I had a, I think it was a true fire, something hardcore. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it had a buckle you could fold it back. Yeah. It didn't dangle around. That was nice. Inconvenient. That's another good one. But it's a, and that one was a hook, not a claw.

Caleb (00:29:47):
Yeah. If I do a wrist releases here, which is kind of looking what it's gonna end up when I'm, it's gonna be hook, it's gonna be a hook. Cuz that's another thing where it's just less time less. Yeah. You just hook it Right. Too deeply. You don't have to worry about pinching anything down, it's just ready to go.

Andrew (00:29:59):
Yep. And most of that comes down to shooting them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> which one, which one's more natural? Which one's about a better anchor point? Yeah. Because you may have moved your D loop, you may have to move your peep site, depend on

Caleb (00:30:07):
How Oh, you change releases, your draw length will change. Yeah. If you go

Andrew (00:30:10):
From shooting, just had to move his Yep. Either an inch or half an inch. Yeah. Yeah. If you

Caleb (00:30:13):
Go from shooting a, you know, a wrist release straight to a thumb button, you're draw length, your anchor, everything's gonna change. Totally. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Um, so that's one thing too that I was thinking the other day when I was like debating on switch. I'm like, dad, I really want to switch this now.

Andrew (00:30:25):
I don't know if I'm gonna start all over. Yeah. <laugh>.

Caleb (00:30:28):
But coming down to it, there's still time. There is still time there. There's still time.

Andrew (00:30:32):
You and, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was just going, I was gonna keep shopping the list. Go

Caleb (00:30:36):
Ahead. That's what's,

Andrew (00:30:37):
That's what that's, you have two on here. One kind of leads into the other. You got let off and you got pounded. Let's do let off

Caleb (00:30:43):
First you wanna do let off. Mm-hmm.

Andrew (00:30:44):
<affirmative>. Okay. High let off versus low. Let

Caleb (00:30:46):
Off. A lot of your bows nowadays have, which is kind of wild people that come in here that have been shooting forever and you know, shot the bear whitetail two s and shot the old Matthews solo cams like, you can adjust let off on this. I'm like, yeah. So good example is the RX seven. You can adjust it from uh, 80 to 85%. I'm shooting 80% right now. And the reason being is that with less let off, you have that tension pulling on you, forcing you to kind of hold,

Andrew (00:31:15):
Hold your

Caleb (00:31:16):
Spot, hold your spot and let that pin rest Right. Where you need to shoot it. Um, higher let off is great, especially if that deer walks behind that tree. You can sit there and you're only holding, if it's 85%, you're only holding 15% of that 70 pounds. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. So you can sit there and just Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But as far as from the shooting aspect, if you want more accuracy, if you want your groups to be tighter, you know, less slot off may be better for you. And that's not everybody you know. Right. I might mm-hmm. <affirmative> Andrew might shoot better

Andrew (00:31:43):
With Yeah. Mine's 85. Yeah. Yep. And maybe it's the way the two bows cam when you roll back and you're holding 15%, when you start easing up, it wants to jump full. Oh yeah. Where if you're sitting at 80%, even though it's like two pounds, three pounds difference, you can certainly feel it and it makes you push against it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you don't wanna push so hard. You're stretching the string. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as long as you can find that sweet spot and keep it, keep it always drawn it 29 inches, always drawing it 29 inches. And I think you're okay. But I saw you shooting your boat when you were adjusting it. It seems like you're, seems like you're shooting it better at 80. Yeah. Even though it probably feels better at 85.

Caleb (00:32:19):
I, for me, I really didn't feel that. It's kind of funny though because uh, before the Hoit I was shooting elite. Okay. And Elite is very known when they had the energy series and the synergy, which is what I was shooting Yeah. For being up to 90% let off. Yeah.

Andrew (00:32:32):
So they were really comfortable. Yeah.

Caleb (00:32:34):
When you go to let that bow down, it's almost like you gotta push it,

Andrew (00:32:36):
But it Yeah. And they, and when it goes, it jumps. Yeah. It's hard. So that helps. That let off controls your let down mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Caleb (00:32:42):
So going from something with that high of let off to 85, it was like, yeah, I can still feel it and I put it to 80 and I felt better about it. Yeah. In a way I felt more comfortable. Sure. And I just, I could definitely feel a difference in the pin float and my whole shooting process. You talking

Andrew (00:32:56):
About the deer walking behind a tree is let off more important than let down Or that's kind? Well that, I think it depends on what

Caleb (00:33:05):
The deer does. How long's the deer statement behind the

Andrew (00:33:06):
Tree? Now if he's making his move, well this is all personal preference, but if he's making his move on you and he's at say 30, 32 mm-hmm. <affirmative> and his line's gonna draw him to about 28 yards and a hole right in front of you. Just like you drew it up. Yeah. And he stops finding a holly bush that you forgot to cut, you know, or the limb that wasn't there last year. Yeah. Whatever it may be. And he stops and now you drew one of his two steps away and he makes a scrape and he's gonna be in there for four minutes. Hmm. You, I mean, nobody wants to hold a boat for four minutes. Yeah. Because after when you get to minute four, you just go pluck it. As soon as he walks out in front of you gonna shoot right over him or stick him in his neck. Or it's gonna be a bad shot when you draw and now you're forced to let down. Is your comfort in that 30 to 40 seconds of holding it worth the uncomfort of letting it down?

Caleb (00:33:55):
I think the 80 cent's gonna be more, it's gonna

Andrew (00:33:57):
Be easier for you to let down. It's gonna be

Caleb (00:33:58):
Easier for you to let down. A hundred percent. And

Andrew (00:34:00):
If you were to tell that to a customer, would you just run that scenario by him and say your choice. Yeah. You know, is it gonna be easier to hold or it's gonna be easier to give up? Cuz if you give up and he doesn't hear you or he doesn't jump, he will eventually hit that hole and you just draw again and

Caleb (00:34:13):
Go. You, you would tell it to a customer. But most when we sold those elites a few years back Yep. They still wanted the nine. They didn't care, they didn't wanna do to hold it. And I mean it was all on that

Andrew (00:34:21):
First. That's the intro on station floor, I think.

Caleb (00:34:23):
Yeah. And when it all showed when they, the first time they shot it in the range, you would take 'em in there, gonna try to bow out and then that hit that back wall. It's like, don't. Yeah. And they're

Andrew (00:34:31):
Like, that's their claim to fame. That was the most suitable bow you could buy. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb (00:34:34):
Except the suitability challenge. Yeah. Is what they, that was a mar was their marketing aspect

Andrew (00:34:39):
Of it. I think it, I find it very important to be able to let the boat down.

Caleb (00:34:42):
I'm with you

Andrew (00:34:43):
And I hunt a lot of fields and field corners. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and a lot of kind of open trees. Or he's gonna see me more than likely when I draw it, as long as I can do it without pissing him off or really pissing her off. Right. Pissing the dough off. Yeah. If I can get away with it, I don't really want to get away with it twice mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I know if I'm cornered to let down, if it's such a jolt, I won't be able to control it. Especially if you hold it for about 60, 90 seconds. Now I gotta let down kind of stretch my shoulders a little bit and as soon as you let down is when he decides to move. Yeah. That's like clock. Yeah.

Hunter (00:35:15):
Whatever you think's gonna happen won't. Correct. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, whatever you think's not gonna happen, probably will. Sure. I mean, that's just the way it is. Yeah. And you know, when you're hunting a big a, a place with a lot of trees, you almost gotta play those scenarios out and like, all right, well

Andrew (00:35:31):
If he goes this

Hunter (00:35:31):
Way, if he's coming this way Yeah. What's, what's gonna stop him between here and there,

Caleb (00:35:36):
Whatever cutting and lanes and you know, just

Andrew (00:35:38):
Yeah. And it goes back to stuff. People hopefully are riding around in the four wheelers listening to this. They're out cutting shooting lanes and Yeah. Yeah. If you got that saw in your hand, cut it. Hmm. Yeah. If you got the saw in your hand, cut it. Yeah. It's worth the exposure to the deer then it not having a shot. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And that's same with lemon hunting roads for your dog club or uh, hanging up a 500 yard shooting tower. Yeah. Cut it because

Hunter (00:36:01):
You got that all cut. Yeah. That, that holly tree or that holly branch that you don't think you, you've never

Andrew (00:36:06):
Seen a deer there, <laugh>. That's,

Hunter (00:36:08):
That's where he's gonna go.

Andrew (00:36:09):
That's gonna be the one and it's gonna be the one year after. Yeah. Or the

Caleb (00:36:11):
Biggest mistake, you're like, you go through there in September or you go through there now and you're like, oh it looks great. Some October gets here, it's gonna be gone. They be on the ground and then you get in there October and it's just, I can't see anything.

Andrew (00:36:20):
Correct. Still got some leaves. Then by the time the leaves going now you got sticks to shoot around. I'd rather shoot through the leaves than shoot around the sticks. Just cut it all. Yeah. <laugh> cut it all in your hand. Cut it. Yeah.

Hunter (00:36:29):
Just get rid of it.

Andrew (00:36:29):
I like the, I like having a high let off. I don't like having the high let off when it's time to let go. Yeah.

Caleb (00:36:36):
Which those elites man were nuts. Yeah. There was videos out there, people drawing the bows on a bow scale and just the weight of the bow was enough to hold that 10% and they just let their hands go and it was that full draw on a scale. Wow.

Andrew (00:36:47):
Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. It was crazy set up of a loaded bow.

Caleb (00:36:50):
I loved my elite. I still have it, but I'm gonna play with the hoit this year, so we'll

Andrew (00:36:53):
See. So what do you like for poundage? You're a big, you're an above average, above strength person. So if you were to look at your average man, somebody like me or Hunter walks in mm-hmm. <affirmative>, six foot one 90. They pretty comfortable about 60 pounds.

Caleb (00:37:08):
I would say 60 is a perfect starting point for somebody getting into it. Now you will run into people that you know and you're using muscles in your body that you don't use for anything

Andrew (00:37:17):
Else. Very strange feeling. Yeah.

Hunter (00:37:18):
Well and that's, it's a

Andrew (00:37:19):
Weird soreness. The next day you're shooting about 80 arrows. You tight, but you

Hunter (00:37:23):
Wake, you wake those muscles up. Sure. And it's, it's like yoga, like we talked about yoga for guys.

Andrew (00:37:28):
Yeah, that's right. Its yoga for dudes man. Or hey,

Hunter (00:37:30):
You know, four girls. Sure. You know, we gotta include them, you know.

Andrew (00:37:33):
Well they got their own yoga, right? Yeah. This is yoga for dudes. Yeah. Yeah. Ladies welcome. But

Hunter (00:37:37):
Don't be, don't don't think like if anybody's, you know, talking trash to you about shooting 60 pounds. 60

Andrew (00:37:43):
Versus 80.

Hunter (00:37:44):
Dude, there's nothing wrong with that. No, I

Caleb (00:37:46):
You are good. Good. Can you shoot if anybody ever makes fun of you for the pound juice shoot. Yeah. Ted Nugent hunts with 40 pounds. Yeah man. Chills, bigger deer. It's

Andrew (00:37:54):
Killed more than, than the three of us will ever see. Exactly. Absolutely.

Caleb (00:37:56):
So you can just put that right back.

Andrew (00:37:58):
You see a lot in, um, in sporting clay, which is significantly more my game, but the one out she versus say, oh yeah, I can't handle the equal. I would much rather not take the pounding and put up a higher score. Yeah, yeah. And take the pounding and my little bit of pride, but I shot like crap. Yeah. Right. I would much rather kill the deer. 10 ring arrow, kill the clay target. Right. I want to, you gotta go with what's comfortable

Hunter (00:38:20):
And I would not care about what somebody else thinks No. Of me or what I shoot. Sure. Because that's not, I'm not letting that

Andrew (00:38:27):
They didn't pay for any of it. That's right. Yeah. Exactly. If you start paying the bills, I'll start listening. <laugh>,

Hunter (00:38:32):
I'm doing this, I'm doing this for me and

Andrew (00:38:34):
This is my time in my project. Yeah, absolutely.

Hunter (00:38:36):
Yep. So, you know, you deal with, you know, you

Caleb (00:38:39):
Shoot with what's the most comfortable

Andrew (00:38:40):
For you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And what's the Virginia poundage slash speed slash distance requirement? Is it, so

Caleb (00:38:46):
The law is a distance requirement, but ethically, and I'd say borderline legally as far as, cuz it's, it's really hard to put a, a poundage number on a distance cuz I could probably take a 20 pound bow and if I held it high enough, it probably sling

Andrew (00:39:00):
It a hundred yards. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb (00:39:01):
Um, 40 pounds is the minimum. That's why I tell everybody. Yeah. And

Andrew (00:39:05):
There's been kids that kill a deer with 30 pound bow. They're, but I think that's the exception. Absolutely.

Caleb (00:39:09):
Not the rule. Yeah. But you, you tell 'em 40 with the hopes will be a four 40 by the time season comes in. Sure.

Andrew (00:39:14):
And they're, and that's muscles that they haven't used and Oh, absolutely don't, absolutely don't get figured out. But that, uh, Virginia requirement is a hundred yards of flight.

Caleb (00:39:22):
I think so. I think that's what it is. Yeah. But it's so hard. Like I said, it 40 pounds is the, the most probably the ethical choice as far as I'm concerned. Okay.

Andrew (00:39:29):
I I I've heard a whole lot of people say 40 to 45 is where I, where I want a new shooter at. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then you'll shoot your way into 55 60 that'll come. No. Yeah. It'll, once those muscles wake up. Yeah,

Caleb (00:39:40):
Absolutely. The more you shoot, I tell everybody 10 arrows a day, that's the best choice you can make to build those muscles up

Andrew (00:39:46):
Without wearing out. Exactly.

Caleb (00:39:48):
And everybody's like, well what exercise? I go to the gym a lot. What exercises can I do to waken those muscles? Shoot your bow. That's literally

Andrew (00:39:54):
The only way. Yeah. Because those little, they're all little muscles. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they're stability muscles. Yeah. So probably free weights compared to a machine. So if you're, you know, you wouldn't have to change your whole workout routine, but if you want the stability, instead of doing overhead press on a Smith machine mm-hmm. <affirmative> take a 30 in each hand and do overhead press because you're, you're using the little muscles as you're

Caleb (00:40:14):
Yeah. I've heard people say gumbo too. Yeah. So, but no, I would, I would just shoot that. That's literally the only way to really

Andrew (00:40:22):
Get yourself there. You and bows are sold in 10 pound increments. So the advertised number is 10 pounds, the bow will go 10 pounds less.

Caleb (00:40:28):
There are a few exceptions. Okay. Uh, when the, I believe the Matthews verdicts came out, they switched to a switch weight module system. So your bow has as well, hunter. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the Matthews bows, what they did was, and it's kind of a known thing kind of in the archery world, that when a bow is its limb, uh, bolts are turned all the way down, it's gonna perform better than if it was turned out to adjust poundage. So Matthews, their engineers designed a modular system that adjusts the peak weight of the bow using mods. So when you buy a new Matthews nowadays, it can be changed from, I think it's 55 all the way to 75 mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you can get a 55 pound mod, a 60 pound mod, which is awesome because know

Andrew (00:41:09):
It's, you give the most performance out the bow.

Caleb (00:41:10):
Oh, absolutely. And then, you know, another thing to think about is efficiency. Cuz you look at, um, trying to think, you look at the ratings the companies are giving it for, and if you start cranking that limb bolt out, you might not get that. Yeah. But somebody who can only pull back 55 may have a better chance if it's peaked out. Yeah.

Andrew (00:41:26):
Yeah. And they'll retain all the energy and speed. Yeah. And performance out of the bow. You shoot 70 pounds, shoot 70, I shoot 70. Okay. You're 60 ish.

Hunter (00:41:35):
I'm right now I am. Yeah. I think

Andrew (00:41:37):
I'm 62 on my, yeah.

Caleb (00:41:38):
Now if I shoot fixed weight, I back it off.

Andrew (00:41:40):
That's just me. Okay. Cause you don't want it to be so erratic. Well,

Caleb (00:41:42):
I'm, I'm comfortable with 70 now and I wanted to max, when I got this bow, I told myself I was gonna screw the limb bolts down all the way down. I was like, I'm, I'm rock. 70

Andrew (00:41:51):
Pounds. You max it out. Get all your performance out.

Caleb (00:41:53):
Yeah. And I, I don't know, that's where I'm comfortable now, but with the, uh, when I shot the exodus, when I shot the slick tricks in previous years I was shooting 60, 65. Yeah. I want something that's comfortable because there's a big difference from drawing a bow back and our range and when it's 32 degrees outside, 20 up in

Andrew (00:42:09):
The air with three jackets on and a deer staring at you. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and if you're holding, you used to drawing at ground level now, you may wanna draw starting on the deer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> pull back. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or you may want people still start high and work your way down, but that's just adding movement. Well, when you got 2, 4, 6, 10 eyes on you Yeah. It's hard to do.

Hunter (00:42:27):
And well, when you're getting in and when you're shooting on a daily basis, you should be shooting like that

Andrew (00:42:32):
In a hunting drawing scenario.

Hunter (00:42:34):
Yes. In scenarios. And another thing too is get the blood pumping. Yeah. And try to shoot some arrows too. You know,

Andrew (00:42:39):
Run down your driveway and come back and shoot. I mean,

Hunter (00:42:41):
Cuz that that's,

Andrew (00:42:41):
And shoot one, if

Hunter (00:42:42):
You wanna mimic what it's like for that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, if you wanna get used to that target Absolutely. Panic or that adrenaline mm-hmm. <affirmative> man. Yeah. Run, do, do a couple of wind sprints or something mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then pick that bow up and try to try to make, try make and try

Andrew (00:42:55):
To make a 32nd shot. Yeah. Exactly. Even Yeah. As simple as 20 or 30 minutes or,

Hunter (00:42:59):
Or or hold it, hold it for 60 seconds and then, and then take a shot.

Caleb (00:43:03):
That's a good practice.

Hunter (00:43:03):
It's hard. It's, it's very hard. You

Caleb (00:43:06):
Knowing it's kinda

Andrew (00:43:07):
Like you're not throwing it and looking away. Right.

Hunter (00:43:09):
Like

Caleb (00:43:09):
You're doing a place, sit there on target as long as

Andrew (00:43:11):
You float

Caleb (00:43:11):
At Target

Hunter (00:43:12):
And let it down. Yeah. Because it, it, it's strained your eyes, everything. Sure. But it's kind of like a workout program you, you do just for your physical fitness. Sure. You can do these, all these different various things on a weekly basis mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. On day to day.

Andrew (00:43:25):
And Caleb been nail on the head 10 arrows a day. Right. Plenty. That's, I like, I like shooting two dozens. How

Hunter (00:43:30):
You shoot those 10 arrows, you can differ that every day. Oh yeah.

Andrew (00:43:33):
And that's more important than shooting a hundred arrows is how can you control the 10. Right. And I had a guy give me some of the best advice I ever forgot with the bow was said. He said, set your bow and arrows out in your yard Saturday doing yard work, whatever it may be. Every time you walk by it, shoot it one time. Yeah. That's a good way to And check your group if you can shoot a five arrow, one inch group. That's awesome. Yeah. Can you shoot a five arrow, five hour, one inch group? Yeah. Right. It's really hard because

Caleb (00:43:59):
You might be sitting in that stand for five hours before you get the opportunity.

Andrew (00:44:01):
Sure. But you're gonna be stiff back and when he, when Bucky walks out, you're not gonna stretch and say, hang on a second buddy. Let me shoot three in the ground first. Right. <laugh>. Yeah. It's all of 'em are cold Rifle terms Be cold boy. Cold boy. Yeah. Yeah. So how is it gonna, how are you and the bow gonna shoot? I do shoot mine before I go hunting when I'm in the garage getting my clothes together, everything's going on. I'll pluck it three or four times mm-hmm. <affirmative> just to move my back. Yeah. Yep. In the evening, not so much, but in the morning, like

Hunter (00:44:24):
Practice swings right?

Andrew (00:44:25):
Yeah. Swinging the bat. That's exactly what it's <laugh> swinging the bat a little bit. <laugh>. Yeah. I, I

Hunter (00:44:30):
Don't on deck circle.

Andrew (00:44:32):
Yeah. I don't rely too heavy on the poundage. It's more performance. It really is. If you're shooting it better at 52 than you are at 57, shooting at 52

Hunter (00:44:39):
And if

Andrew (00:44:39):
Yeah. It'll kill a deer.

Caleb (00:44:40):
Comfort is more important,

Andrew (00:44:42):
You know? Absolutely. It all comes down to shot placement. I've

Caleb (00:44:44):
Had people come in here days, a day after they're hunting, they're like, dude, I, I drew this back. I I couldn't even get it back. Like I Yeah. Buck walked out. I couldn't get it back. <laugh>, I was pulling in your range yesterday. I'm like, it's a whole different log.

Hunter (00:44:55):
Sure buddy. Cuz your buddies

Andrew (00:44:56):
Told you at 10 o'clock and worked down. It's way easier than starting at eight o'clock and drawing up.

Hunter (00:45:00):
Right.

Caleb (00:45:01):
All these, there's been like a huge choice

Andrew (00:45:02):
And your buddies picking on you. Yeah. <laugh>.

Hunter (00:45:04):
Yeah. Don't, don't listen to your buddies man. Just the

Andrew (00:45:06):
Thing now is 80 pounds then.

Caleb (00:45:08):
Yeah, I was about to say that's the trend. That's, that's been a huge uh, sweep of the customer base since campaigns got popular. Yeah. Wanting to shoot 80 pounds. Have you

Hunter (00:45:17):
Seen campaigns? Correct.

Andrew (00:45:18):
Dude, the dude runs 26 miles every morning. Yeah. He's different. Yeah. <laugh> the dude is different.

Hunter (00:45:24):
The guy is definitely built different, so Yeah.

Caleb (00:45:27):
Which is awesome. And

Andrew (00:45:28):
More power to it. That's his life. It's his

Caleb (00:45:30):
Business. And he's the kind of guy that probably has the money to go hunt Cape Buffalo in Africa. Sure. So

Andrew (00:45:34):
You where he'll get his

Caleb (00:45:35):
80 pounds. Yeah. You need 80 pounds in order to do that. It's a law.

Andrew (00:45:38):
So, but 110 pound big mama dough will take a 45 pound arrow. This fine, she will take it just fine. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll still hit 'em and you'll still hear that when the, when you're right there to lung. Yeah. You'll be justified. Hit some plenty hard.

Caleb (00:45:51):
Yeah, exactly.

Andrew (00:45:53):
So with that, we're kind of on the arrow topic now. Is the diameter of of feature, is that a selling feature? Uh, speed feature and energy feature and that kind of, we'll do this one first. This'll be a short one. The Fletchers. Yep. What's the deal for you? And then what's the deal for a, a guy walking in the store because there's a difference.

Caleb (00:46:14):
You know, there's, so I fletch my own arrows.

Andrew (00:46:16):
That's the difference. Yeah.

Caleb (00:46:17):
<laugh>. That's the big difference.

Andrew (00:46:18):
Okay. And the key difference is, you know how to Fletcher your own arrows. Yeah, exactly.

Caleb (00:46:21):
So

Hunter (00:46:21):
That's,

Andrew (00:46:22):
That's important. This is not a glue stick.

Hunter (00:46:24):
No. That's very important. No,

Caleb (00:46:26):
I say 75% of our customers are shooting 'em outta the box. Straight fledge. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Which is fine. You can go kill a deer like that. No problem. I kind of compare Fletcher and arrows to reload in a way. Yeah. You're getting more out of your arrow. Sure. If you decide you wanna shoot, I'm trying to think. Uh, iron wheel broadheads and you really want, you know, you need four Fletch because it's such a heavy broadhead. You need that turn to be more. That's great. Learn how to Fletch. Would you f

Hunter (00:46:47):
Fun to do? Can you fletch my airs? I

Caleb (00:46:49):
Can Fletcher Arrows on. I'd be happy

Andrew (00:46:50):
To. Luke Fletch my airs. I got some, I got some, uh, custom bro. Uh, rush brother. Customs. There you go.

Hunter (00:46:55):
Yeah. You, it's like people reload for other people.

Andrew (00:46:58):
That's exactly what it is. That's all it is. And there's, you know, I'm not, not trying to solicit work for Caleb, but there's, there's friendly trades that can be made. Uh, Hey man, yo, can I buy your lunch and you fle by 12. That's what I did with Luke's <laugh>. So, you know, and uh, the f flushings and the wraps and helis was not helicos. Yeah. And the stiff veins and soften two inch, four inch. Yeah. It's a red, it never stops. You can keep going but that's a great comparison to to reloading. Yeah. If it's your thing, do it right. If it ain't your thing, have somebody do it for you.

Caleb (00:47:26):
Yeah. Tim Rhodes might enjoy sitting in front of television and reloading

Andrew (00:47:28):
Hey and punch and primers.

Hunter (00:47:30):
It's a great thing to learn how to do when the season's over.

Andrew (00:47:33):
And that's an awesome March project. Get ready.

Hunter (00:47:35):
Yes. In February, March, there's nothing else

Andrew (00:47:37):
Going on. Listen, you are the guy, you are the fletching guy. That's good. It's time to learn how to And by August you're, you're ready. If you cut an arrow, if you shoot a Robin Hood or you cut an arrow, you can just knock it off fudge an on one. Mm-hmm. And you don't have to start over. Yeah. So the wraps mine are wrapped all white Hopefully. So I can see blood not grass stains. Right. And <laugh> and the, the white's easy to pop. Easy to find with no natural whites in the woods. So

Caleb (00:48:02):
So your team wrapped, cuz that's a thing too. I like the wrap rap versus unwrap

Andrew (00:48:05):
So that when I don't like those colors, I can just take 'em off. Start over. I don't have to ever run a knife on my arrow. There you go. Because

Caleb (00:48:11):
I don't,

Andrew (00:48:11):
That's exactly, if I argument in my mind, if I take all the glue off and I start scratching that carbon. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't like it. It doesn't suit well with me. It's not cool. So if I take the wrap off, it's good. We're good. Start all over. Just like peeling a skin. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay, so that's, and

Hunter (00:48:27):
So fletches and we covered that. That was, that was, that was a good coverage

Andrew (00:48:30):
Right there. That was a good, uh, you just punted on that one. Say that's a, that's a five hour discussion. Yeah.

Caleb (00:48:36):
Yeah. It really could go way further but we'll, we'll keep it there. <laugh>. Yeah.

Andrew (00:48:39):
Yeah. You shoot

Caleb (00:48:40):
Helic. I shoot. Yeah, I shoot a half inch. I think a, oh no, maybe it's not a half inch. So I shoot a right elic with a right offset. Three vein.

Andrew (00:48:47):
Do your arrows naturally spin to the right.

Caleb (00:48:50):
Oh this is gonna get,

Andrew (00:48:51):
This will. Yeah. This

Caleb (00:48:52):
They naturally spin to the left. But let me hit you with something. Okay. Cause somebody got on me this about this the other day and me and Billy had a deep conversation about this. We, Billy has tried, uh, and I think Lucas tried to do the left offset because arrows naturally want to go

Andrew (00:49:07):
Most arrows naturally. Most nerves do. Yeah. Most of 'em naturally go left.

Caleb (00:49:09):
The problem with that is as you're shooting that unscrews your fuel points that unscr your broadhead. Yes. Yeah. I'm not, I'd rather admit, I'd rather have that energy just switch just a bit rather than have my broad head get loose on it. That's the,

Andrew (00:49:21):
I'm not, that's the way I would think too. And in a 35 yard shot you could unscrew it enough just to have doubt. Yeah.

Caleb (00:49:27):
I just, I don't trust it and I've been shooting Right helical right offset for a while. I think I'm about to fudge some more arrows and I was thinking about doing just straight flush

Andrew (00:49:34):
And your advice will do left or right.

Caleb (00:49:36):
Yeah, I have a butts and burger. Okay. Luke's got the sweet one. He's got the, he's got the vein master pro. Yeah. Yeah. That's a cool one. Cool.

Andrew (00:49:43):
Now what does that have to do with aero diameter while we're on fletching arrows? And

Caleb (00:49:46):
So I would say that the aero diameter, uh, standard versus small would probably be, you know, two categories. We can talk about

Andrew (00:49:55):
Four, five, and six millimeter. Right? Yeah.

Caleb (00:49:56):
So your smallest right now something like the, that we have on the shelf would be something like the east and long range, the four millimeters. And uh, they have that in access as well as the fmj s So it's using an outer, which traditionally is a little bit different for the FMJ S and the axis they typically use h i t insert, which is hidden. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> kind of like what you shoot, kind of like what I shoot. Yeah. Minor, um, hidden inserts. F ooc front and center is something that is going to be, uh, a higher chance of it being better with Is that more weight front?

Andrew (00:50:24):
That is all energy. Yes. Not speed based, energy based.

Caleb (00:50:27):
No. I mean they say long range, but I really think that the biggest advantage you're getting with a smaller diameter arrow is, you know, it's the difference between taking this ballpoint pin and hitting my hand with this side or clicking out the, the ink and hitting this side. You're reducing your surface area. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> so you've got more penetration power, um, that might, you know, benefit you if you hit a shoulder blade. Sure. It might punch right through it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> depending on the broad head, but you see what I mean?

Andrew (00:50:49):
Yeah. Let's drag all the way through the deer all the way through the air. Okay. But that skinnier arrow, by having that you have all your weight shoved up front. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Caleb (00:50:56):
Most of your weight.

Andrew (00:50:56):
Yes sir. Which is a energy transfer. Uhhuh <affirmative>. Okay. Which is uh, big game four or 500 pounds plus. Yeah. Okay.

Caleb (00:51:03):
I

Andrew (00:51:03):
Think that's where it becomes important.

Caleb (00:51:04):
Yeah. Your uh, your small diameter arrows are definitely gonna make a huge difference in the big game aspect. Okay. Like we just, like I said, I'm gonna note Cape Buffalo, you go out West Elk shoot elk,

Andrew (00:51:14):
Uh, grizzlies or even blackberry

Caleb (00:51:16):
Deer or anything like that. Yeah. It's going to be beneficial. But I'm, I can promise you if you shoot a standard diameter for a white tail you are, you

Andrew (00:51:22):
Can't. That's fine. Okay. Yeah. And then a five is kind of the happy medium where you get a little bit of energy

Caleb (00:51:27):
Attention. It's six but it's not a four. But you're, you know, you're still getting the benefits of being small diameter but at the same time you're not having a hard time finding NOx or finding this and it's just, okay, I enjoy the fives. Most

Andrew (00:51:37):
Of the four millimeter stuff is either customer special order or a special request. I need when I start this project,

Caleb (00:51:44):
Todd, you shoot

Andrew (00:51:45):
Those, when I start this project, I need to commit to four millimeter. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I can't be back. Can't be wishy bossy. Can't want this and have that. It

Caleb (00:51:51):
Used to be if you went that small, you had a lot of broadhead issues. You had to like, the decent deep six was one thing that it was like if you shot the deep six, you really have to have deep six. You can't shoot anything else. Okay. Now it's kind of gotten the point with out search and stuff that if you shoot a small diameter arrow, you're gonna be all right. You can rock whatever a five mill or four or a six mil does.

Andrew (00:52:09):
So I put on my little notepad, I put speed versus energy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is a great rifle topic. It's a great shotgun topic. It is. It is cut and dry. Same with baseball players. It's all across all facets of life. Dead is dead, doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> dead is dead. I like the energy. I want to hit you hard. I wanna hit you with all I got. And that's why I would want to shoot a 60 62 pound bow that's comfortable. But I might go up to 125 green broadhead. Yeah. And a heavier arrow. Um, do you have a preference or a selling point or what would, what would an average customer, you wanna hear my

Caleb (00:52:46):
Selling

Andrew (00:52:46):
Point? What are his concerns? Because they like speed cuz IBO speed and set up to hunt speed about 50 feet percent. Speed

Caleb (00:52:52):
Used be everything man. Yeah. I

Andrew (00:52:53):
Mean

Caleb (00:52:54):
The selling point point, you don't

Andrew (00:52:55):
Hear much on speed anymore.

Caleb (00:52:56):
10 years ago that was the only thing. You know, the RPM 360 PSE was big. A huge name in the game for

Andrew (00:53:01):
Speed. What was the Matthews boat? A Creed. Creed. Creed was like a three 40. Three 50 bow.

Caleb (00:53:06):
A great bow. Yeah. Now the thing about, and a lot of people don't know this well IBO you said that IBO is very, very biased. It's the bows. Say we take the IBO of the A seven or the V3 X, it's

Andrew (00:53:18):
Bare bow,

Caleb (00:53:19):
Bare bow, longest draw length, highest poundage possible. The

Andrew (00:53:23):
Light

Caleb (00:53:23):
Arrow arrow. Possible rest. No nothing on the boat.

Andrew (00:53:26):
And that's like one grain from dry fire in it. Correct. Okay. As as. So

Caleb (00:53:30):
They're gonna do whatever they can to get it to go as fast as they can.

Andrew (00:53:33):
And what is that bow IBO at? Do you know your bow?

Caleb (00:53:35):
Uh, probably in the three forties I would think.

Andrew (00:53:38):
And do you know what it's shooting set up to hunt two 80. Yep.

Caleb (00:53:40):
I like to see between.

Andrew (00:53:43):
Yeah. Yeah. I think mine's just, that's like a high two 60

Caleb (00:53:46):
S and I'll give you a good little story. I know I'm hitting y'all a lot of stories, but you good. You

Hunter (00:53:50):
Like, we like stories.

Andrew (00:53:51):
I got stories

Caleb (00:53:51):
Man. So with my elite, uh, a few deer that I used to shoot the maximum blues great arrow. They're a speed arrow though. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I was a big fan of 'em. I I thought they were, I kind of bought 'em cause they were blue when I first started working. Sure.

Andrew (00:54:03):
The stuff looks cool.

Caleb (00:54:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Andrew (00:54:05):
And you hold it a lot more when you shoot it. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> it's important. Look, you gotta look cool. That's right.

Caleb (00:54:10):
Um, but no, I, uh, I was having awful problems with penetration on deer. I just, they wouldn't go, I wasn't getting, it was penetrating him, but it would stop halfway or if it hit a shoulder blade it would just bump off. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I would never find the deer switch the axis. I mean the weight difference is pretty significant. Comparing, you know, something that is, you know, known to be a heavy arrow to something that's a speed arrow. In addition to that, trying to think what I was gonna say. I'm losing it

Andrew (00:54:40):
<laugh>. That's alright. Yeah. We'll circle back. But you, you switched from the speed to the energy.

Caleb (00:54:47):
Yes. I remember

Andrew (00:54:47):
That. You're getting better pass throughs. You're getting what did you get contact

Hunter (00:54:50):
Heavier broadhead or

Caleb (00:54:51):
I went to a heavier arrow. Heavier

Hunter (00:54:52):
Arrow.

Caleb (00:54:53):
Same broadhead. Heavier

Hunter (00:54:54):
Arrow. Okay.

Caleb (00:54:55):
Um, but with the, when I chron it, when I was shooting the blues outta my elite, I was getting 3 0 5

Andrew (00:55:00):
Set up to hunt, set, stabilize, quiver, everything, site risk. But

Caleb (00:55:03):
I was having all those penetration problems, you know, so when I switched the axis 2 80, 2 78, somewhere in

Andrew (00:55:09):
There Yeah. Start crushing deer. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yep. Same with rifle bullets. A 40 grand bullet looks awesome on a chronograph, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you, if you touch the back of the groundhog and the bullet blows up, but your groundhog doesn't Yeah. You know, I I would much rather have a 55 grain hard hardcore bullet. Absolutely. And lose 200 feet per second. Yeah. And just let it do what it's gonna do. Yeah, yeah.

Hunter (00:55:29):
Yeah. When you look at, you know, external ballistics on just say like rifle calibers mm-hmm. <affirmative> and stuff mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what they do, depending on the speeds and everything, you know, it, it, it can sometimes change your mind real quick on what you're, what you're actually shooting. You know what I mean? Sure. Cause some people don't realize it, you know, cuz they go for speed when actually mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they should be looking at something heavier. Correct.

Andrew (00:55:50):
It is class exam speed kills, but Oh sure. Not if you got, don't have right. Equipment to go along with it. Yeah. But, and can you out speed a bow? Can you run it? Like, is that scenario you can run it too fast where it's not giving you any benefit? Mm.

Caleb (00:56:03):
I mean that would be kind of like, like what you had, what I just talked about. Yeah. I mean I was getting crazy speed outta the elite, which is great

Andrew (00:56:09):
Performance.

Caleb (00:56:11):
It was killing Deere but it wasn't, I expected more pass throughs and you think if you put that pin right behind the shoulder blade and it's hitting on the ribcage, it just zips right there. It would go right through not halfway. Especially if you're shooting 65, 70 pounds. Yeah. I, I made the switch and I haven't had any issues since. Okay.

Hunter (00:56:26):
Yeah. Okay.

Caleb (00:56:28):
What else you got? What else

Hunter (00:56:28):
Do we gotta do? We, that's,

Andrew (00:56:29):
Did we, I had types of bows on here, but I think we covered the, got that recurve versus we didn't get into recurves, but you're probably in descending order from bow hunting enthusiast. You would have a crossbo, you would have the best crossbow would be probably the least enthused guy.

Caleb (00:56:47):
I say nine times outta 10 when somebody wants to do a recur. If they just want to get one, they wanna be weird. They just want, they wanna be, they

Andrew (00:56:53):
Kill

Caleb (00:56:53):
One deal with it. I'm there, I need to kill more dude. I just bought this Hoyt so I gotta use that. Sure. Maybe next

Andrew (00:56:57):
Year. I saw you the other day looking I one we had in the back. I know I was. Yeah.

Hunter (00:57:00):
But well, you know, cuz what I've been thinking is, you know, with the property to hunt, to, to shoot now I, I've been thinking, man, I need to get a decent, I I don't need something super nice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I wouldn't mind getting a decent recurve just to shoot just to

Andrew (00:57:13):
With is an awesome backyard, bo and then it's neighborhood though. It's a, it's a, you and your, your daughter thinks it's cool when you go shoot it. As long as you're not out kicking your coverage, you're losing all your arrows. You shoot it, plug it 20 yards, it takes five seconds to string it. Yeah. You go shoot dozen arrows, pick 'em up, set away. Yeah. And it's

Caleb (00:57:29):
A challenge to hunt with and not, and that's extremely challenge. A lot of what attracts people to bow hunting to begin with is the extra challenge. I know

Andrew (00:57:37):
A guy that works here has killed one with recur. Oh

Hunter (00:57:38):
Really? I do too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Caleb (00:57:40):
He's all

Andrew (00:57:41):
Guy's awesome dude. The dude rules <laugh>

Caleb (00:57:43):
<laugh>,

Andrew (00:57:45):
But it's extremely

Caleb (00:57:46):
Hard. Oh, it was you. That's right Now it was,

Andrew (00:57:47):
Was it No

Hunter (00:57:48):
Episode. Yeah. Bless. You have to go back on one of the episodes.

Andrew (00:57:50):
Stop it. Um, it's not so much like we had talked with Billy, it's like yoga with a bow. Not to get all hippie grass eat on you, but you get in sync with it and you can tell first shot, second shot, good day or bad day. Yeah. You really tell. Oh yeah. And it shows with a compound and sometimes it shows with a, uh, crossbo, but when you start plucking the string and you're not smooth, that 45 pounds shows like 65 pounds. It, it's, it's hard. It's art

Caleb (00:58:16):
To shoot. There's so much more that's on you than the equipment. Exactly.

Andrew (00:58:19):
Because of the compound cannot rely on your let off or your sight Oh or level or no, you got nothing

Caleb (00:58:24):
And you're pulling back from one point of pressure. And like you said earlier, there's wrist, it's just like a rifle. I mean, you squeezing the trigger with Correct. With the recurved long, you have

Andrew (00:58:32):
Three fingers plucking it instead of

Caleb (00:58:33):
One and you better do the same thing every time. It's not gonna be like, should have a bad day. Correct. But

Andrew (00:58:37):
Yeah, your anchor points are crazy. It's consistency. And those with me, which I got very fortunate, I work at a place I can shoot it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> shot it every day, took it home, stayed with it, never shot it outta a tree stand much, but shot just enough to know where my drops were. Yeah. And I killed the first deer I shot at. Haven't put the strings on it since

Caleb (00:58:55):
Walk. Another thing that's all about walk,

Andrew (00:58:56):
Take a picture, walk aways.

Caleb (00:58:58):
Right. Another thing that's kind of cool, kind of weird to think about, there's not one right way to shoot the recurve. There's

Andrew (00:59:04):
100%

Caleb (00:59:05):
Preference. Oh yeah. You, you can do so many different things with him.

Andrew (00:59:07):
And I shot, um, point, well I guess it's called point on mm-hmm. <affirmative> or point of aim I shot point on with mine and um, Ben, the guy that comes in here shoots pointon and he's deadly. He has no problem hitting the thumb tag. 20 yards. He's a dude. Um, but a whole lot of people can shoot 'em instinctive. I shot the instinctive as good, but not as consistent as the point on mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So now I have some sort of reference with my arrow tip and it makes me have a better anchor point. But the big point I was getting to was I think you're, the levels of enthusiasm are on a reverse scale. So you're most enthused as the hardest bow. He is the most challenging event. He is a bow, he's an archer. He's not even a bow hunter. This is, he's in tune with his bow and it's probably a really nice compound. A traditional bow, like a recurve of a long bow. Then somewhere in the middle, which is probably the middle 90, 80 to 90%, you have bow hunters mm-hmm. <affirmative> who are maybe part-time recurve, part-time compound or crossbo. But they are Yeah. Compound bow hunters. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> they are. And the bow season lasts 365 days a year for them. They think about buying arrows in March. Lemon tree stands in August season begins

Caleb (01:00:16):
Day after it ends.

Andrew (01:00:17):
Exactly. And they start, they stood rocket. The prime example. Oh yeah. Rocket starts, lemon tree stands in January. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> region's ready to go, never stops. Yeah. And then the opposite side is the convenience. And I'm not a bow hunter, I just want a bow hunt. Yeah. He's a crossbo

Caleb (01:00:31):
Hunt. Want the extra month.

Andrew (01:00:32):
Yeah. And that's very vague, but yeah. You get another, you get four or five weeks of exposure to the deer that you're not a bow hunter. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I am a mu load hunter so I can watch this deer. Yeah. Maybe see him twice. Yeah. And now I know what to do idea if I lucky I get a shot. If not, maybe I kill a dough one evening and I I got a good read on the book that I'm at.

Hunter (01:00:49):
Yeah. Man. Some of the best places I've gone to in the open and week of muzzle loading have, have been all because I was

Andrew (01:00:56):
Home What you saw week three,

Hunter (01:00:57):
A week prior. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I mean, it's the best scouting time around man.

Andrew (01:01:00):
Sure. And you, that's the best look at the woods. Yeah. Because when you start, it's a lot like Turkey season, the opposite of Turkey season. Yes. When you start in April, you can hear a long ways. You can see a long ways mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And by the time the end of Turkey season comes, you can see 40 yards in front of you. That's it. Yeah. The bow hunting's the exact opposite as the season goes on. That deer that slipped you week one, you can probably kill 'em week three. Yeah. You'll lose enough trees. You know, a hurricane will come through, blowing the leaves off. You can, you might be able to get that shot. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> really, really cool to watch that quick three, four week evolution. Yeah. And around our house, I normally only hunt first three weeks, let the last week sit, and then it's hit with the muscle. Then it's civil war reenactment, <laugh>, you know, on the mu season. Yeah, that's

Caleb (01:01:40):
Right. Fixing bayonets, man. That's

Andrew (01:01:41):
Right man. That's right. It is all, you just look out in the battlefield, all you see is a haze of smoke. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Caleb (01:01:47):
It's gotta be like 100% my favorite time of the year. Yeah. Those few weeks

Andrew (01:01:51):
Where you start to see

Caleb (01:01:51):
A transition

Hunter (01:01:52):
Matters October. Yeah. I mean the bugs, the bugs suck, but you know, it's just,

Caleb (01:01:56):
It only for like a week and a half too.

Andrew (01:01:57):
It's great. Yeah. The first, the first week is normally a t-shirt and sweat. Mm-hmm. And then the last week is normally a heavy hoodie or light jacket. Yeah. And I've, I've gone out there in bibs, you know, in October mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I've also sweated to death during mu season, so yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I just never know.

Hunter (01:02:12):
It's Virginia weather for you. I

Andrew (01:02:13):
Love it. You don't like it. Wait 15 minutes. That's right. Yeah. You'll get a good one. Yeah.

Hunter (01:02:18):
All right. Well we covered a lot of stuff. Um, you know, again, it's not too late.

Caleb (01:02:23):
No. You know, not at all.

Hunter (01:02:24):
Um, whether you're, whether you're looking for a new bow you're experienced or if you want to get into it and get a compound this year, it's still not, not too late

Caleb (01:02:31):
For that. Correct. Absolutely.

Hunter (01:02:32):
But if you own

Andrew (01:02:33):
A bow, you set up a guy yesterday, I mean, head to toe starting like first bow every

Caleb (01:02:37):
Day. Someone's in here, everybody,

Andrew (01:02:38):
And he was, he hit it about Right. Cause we had everything you wanted in stock. Yeah, yeah,

Hunter (01:02:42):
Yeah. The closer we get, I mean it's, it's getting, it's gonna get tougher and tougher to find touchy, not just, not just strings and cables and things like that, but I I'm talking

Caleb (01:02:50):
Broadhead. Yeah.

Andrew (01:02:52):
Tree stands. Tree stands, all

Hunter (01:02:54):
The stuff. Stuff. I mean it's

Andrew (01:02:56):
Control. Uh, the, all the, the detergents and the deer attractions, all that stuff's gonna get narrow pretty quick. Yeah. Outta the wire. People are catching on that. The covid backup pushed everything back by two, three months.

Hunter (01:03:08):
Yeah. Well, you know,

Andrew (01:03:09):
Jump now. You don't have to buy it. Then Covid

Hunter (01:03:11):
Created not just not a, not a hunting problem, but I mean it introduced more people, a lot of, introduced a lot of new people to, to to shooting bows or to hunting. Yeah. Whatever it is. And you got more competition now. That's a great, that's a great thing.

Caleb (01:03:25):
It's been noticeable.

Andrew (01:03:26):
A hundred percent awesome thing. But it has made a lot more competition. Yeah.

Hunter (01:03:30):
It has,

Caleb (01:03:31):
It has 100% been noticeable this year with string cables in my opinion. Yeah. Because we started getting swamped, I say like right before 4th of July, which was a little early for us. That's

Andrew (01:03:40):
Normally the turning point.

Caleb (01:03:41):
Yeah. And it's a lot of people, when we think about it, when somebody buys it both from us, they ask, all right, what about maintenance? I'll tell you. Oh, every two to three years do string cables. We're coming up on that two year mark. Yeah. So it's starting to get backed up. Yeah. The, the

Andrew (01:03:53):
Covid rebound is catching

Caleb (01:03:54):
Up now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, everybody's, you know, coming in to get their stuff worked on. And we had so, like y'all said, so many hunters that came out of Covid that were just stuck

Andrew (01:04:00):
Doing that. It's awesome. Yeah, it's great.

Caleb (01:04:02):
It's, uh,

Hunter (01:04:03):
Either they were new to it or they used to do it and then they picked it back up.

Caleb (01:04:06):
I got nothing to do. Now on my

Andrew (01:04:08):
Doing again, the three rs of an avid outdoorsman is recruitment, retention and reactivation. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's like the, the DNR is like a big push. Yeah, yeah. There's a whole lot of, uh, reactivation. We're a lot

Hunter (01:04:18):
Of react reactivation.

Andrew (01:04:20):
John working from home and he looking out in the backyard and he see deer and they stomach growls. Man. I like, I like that. Yeah. <laugh>. Yep. Well,

Hunter (01:04:27):
Hey Caleb, thanks for being here today. Thank

Caleb (01:04:29):
Y'all for having me, man. You know, if

Hunter (01:04:30):
Uh, anybody's got any questions or wanna do a, a new boat set up or whatever, uh, look, um, look up Caleb at the archery desk. He's, uh, yeah, he, he's a, he's a big dude. You can't miss him. Yeah. He's

Andrew (01:04:40):
Gonna be hard to mess. But that whole crew, I mean, tank Billy. Yeah, Luke, Luke, uh, the two new boys are figuring it out. They're doing great. We got

Caleb (01:04:47):
A great group of guys back there. Yeah. We're looking forward to helping everybody out four season hits and, uh, we'll see you guys soon if

Andrew (01:04:53):
We can't shoot 'em. We like seeing pictures of other people shooting. That's

Hunter (01:04:56):
Right. Yeah. Absolutely.

Caleb (01:04:57):
Yeah. Poor tenderloin. You knew you can bring that too. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (01:04:59):
Cooked cook.

Caleb (01:05:00):
Yeah. Prefer cooked

Andrew (01:05:01):
Medium rare raft and bacon <laugh>.

Hunter (01:05:02):
Yeah. Well if, if you want your, hes flats, right? Correct.

Andrew (01:05:05):
Yeah.

Caleb (01:05:06):
That's Anything for you Hunter?

Andrew (01:05:07):
We'll, Fletch for food. Yeah. <laugh>.

Hunter (01:05:08):
Yeah. We'll, Fletch for food. I like that. That's right. All right, cool. Uh, thanks for listening. Um, check us out greentop on fish.com and uh,

(01:05:16):
We'll see you in the next episode. You know where to find

Narrator (01:05:18):
Us. Yeah. Thanks for listening to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast. Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle like, and subscribe to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more about greentop at greentophuntfish.com.