Best Rifle Caliber for Deer in Central VA? - Green Top Outdoors Podcast Episode 14

July 29, 2021 "What's the best rifle caliber for deer in Central VA?"

In this episode, Hunter and the boys sit around talking about the best rifle caliber for deer hunting in Central Virginia. At least 16 different calibers are discussed. See where your favorite ranks as Hunter, Andrew, and Garren break down the pros and cons of each caliber.

Hunting, fishing and all things outdoors – it’s more than a hobby, it’s a lifestyle. 

Today's Guests:
Andrew Napier and Garren Meyers

About Green Top:
Green Top Sporting Goods has been helping generations access the outdoors since 1947. Now, we're bringing the expertise of our Green Top pros and vendors right to you with the Green Top Outdoors Podcast. From hunting to fishing, boating to cooking, let's find your way outdoors.

Narrator (00:00:02):
Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. Welcome to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast with your host, hunter Brooks.

Hunter Brooks (00:00:12):
Hello, friends. Great episode. Today we are going to be talking about rifle calibers here in the state of Virginia, we did a little 16 caliber bracket tournament between a bunch of different calibers, me, Garren, and Andrew. Sit down and we narrow it down to the top caliber to Deer hunt with in the state. Stay tuned, it is gonna be a great episode.

(00:00:34):
The Greentop Outdoors Podcast is brought to you by the Mike Chenault Group, hometown Realty. They are sportsmen and realtors. The only thing they love more than hunting and fishing is selling great pieces of land and homes. Dream homes on the river where you can fish right from your dock to land where you can adventure to your heart's content. Hometown Outdoors can help you find it. Let our friends at the Mike Chenault group help you get the outdoor space you need for homes or land in Central Virginia. Visit hookupwithhometown.com. That's hookupwithhometown.com, and click outdoors to learn more.

(00:01:07):
Andrew Napier and Garren Meyers on here today. And, uh, man, you know, today's topic is gonna be a good one. We were, we were sitting around just trying to think of some, just some cool topics to maybe cover. And we were thinking, you know, and, and in that conversation we were like, so what's the best rifle caliber for deer hunting? When's the last time you sat around? Had a good think with the boys? Uh, man, it's been a while. Been a long time. You gotta do more of that. Yeah. Come up with some, I gotta get some friends. Come up with some good stuff. I'm getting tired of talking to the two of y'all. Right, <laugh>. Yeah. But so we said, you know, what's the best caliber? And we said, well, we started naming off all these calibers and how, how great they are.

(00:01:46):
And we said, well, why don't, why don't we have like a, uh, like a bracket tournament of the calibers for, for for hunting Virginia Whitetails. Yeah. A local, local conversation. You know, keep, keep it local, keep it in the hood, and, you know, let's, and let's see who comes out on top. And you know, we've got an pretty unbiased group right here of three people. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, two outta three of us can decide on who's gonna advance to the next round. So we said, well, let's take 16 calibers. Eight short action, eight long action. Am I correct? Yeah. Yep. Eight short. Well, you have seven short action. One flyer is a rimmed cartridge. That's a rimmed. Yes. That's a lever action. You, well, he gets probably guessed what that's gonna be so close. That's our wild card. Yeah. Correct. He's a wild card.

(00:02:32):
So we finalized, uh, 16 calibers, eight long, eight short, and put 'em long actions on one side of the bracket and the short actions on the other. And we ranked them one through eight on each side. And the ranking ranking's a little biased. Yeah, you could, yeah. Yeah. You could say it's a little biased there, but it say it's fair based off what we sell based based on what we know. Yeah. Based on what we know. Because, uh, I mean this is, uh, you know, you could have a pretty subjective view on this and a objective view exactly on this. I mean, it's, you could probably argue for days on, on what's the best caliber.

Andrew Napier (00:03:07):
You could argue what's the best, uh, 284 caliber, correct. Yeah. Let alone anything

Hunter Brooks (00:03:12):
Else. Absolutely. Or they, uh, the 308 versus 65 creedmore debate, that's

Andrew Napier (00:03:17):
A, that's probably how we should start. And that's probably your best argument. Yeah. And they're not gonna hit each other in this bracket until

Hunter Brooks (00:03:26):
Potentially the third round. Potentially the third round. Yeah. Potentially the third

Andrew Napier (00:03:28):
Round.

Hunter Brooks (00:03:29):
Well, let's go through the calibers real quick. Okay. You wanna do that? Sure. Okay. So on the short action side, so coming in ranked number one, number one seated is, uh, the 308 Winchester. Is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay. No argument there.

Andrew Napier (00:03:43):
Arguments to be had, but not by me.

Hunter Brooks (00:03:45):
But the 308 still, I mean, in this day probably carries, it's, it's, I don't know. It's ranked probably one of the most prolific calibers. Absolutely. It's in the military.

Andrew Napier (00:03:55):
It's, it's really good at killing shit.

Hunter Brooks (00:03:56):
7 7 62 by 51 nato. Mm-hmm.

Andrew Napier (00:03:59):
<affirmative>

Hunter Brooks (00:04:01):
Number 2, 2 43 Winchester.

Andrew Napier (00:04:05):
God just holds a special place in everybody's heart. It does. Everybody who's ever owned a rifle

Hunter Brooks (00:04:09):
And, you know, a special place in, and a lot of people are probably pissed at that didn't come in at number one, but that's okay. It's all right. Cause 2 43 is, it's gonna be a long term. Phenomenal. It's, it is, it is. It's strategy number, number strategy coming in. Number three is the 6.5 creed more. Yep. Still a kind of a young ca caliber. Correct. That's right. I mean, it doesn't, age of caliber doesn't matter.

Andrew Napier (00:04:29):
No, it's, it's about 15 years old, which is a baby. It's old enough world. Yeah. But it's old enough. Yeah. Puts up a good fight.

Hunter Brooks (00:04:36):
It's old enough. Uh, number four, is that six five prc? That

Andrew Napier (00:04:42):
Is a six five prc.

Hunter Brooks (00:04:44):
That's a young one, which

Andrew Napier (00:04:45):
Is very young, fresh, and going back to back six five calibers. Yeah. Which is, we'll find out. But that's kind of the sweet spot. Ballistically 6.5 or 2 64.

Hunter Brooks (00:04:54):
Oh yeah. So number five. Um, what is number five?

Andrew Napier (00:04:59):
Number five? I,

Hunter Brooks (00:05:01):
Is that the 30, 30? Think

Andrew Napier (00:05:02):
I have two fives on here. Number five is the

Hunter Brooks (00:05:05):
30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30.

Andrew Napier (00:05:06):
Jumped a few places. It did. Because I didn't want 'em to, I didn't want 'em to get too conflicting to Well,

Hunter Brooks (00:05:11):
It's a classic

Andrew Napier (00:05:12):
And it's a, that's a, not only a Virginia Classic, but an American

Hunter Brooks (00:05:15):
Classic. It's killed a lot of stuff. And it's, it's done real well at it too. It's done

Andrew Napier (00:05:18):
A really good job.

Hunter Brooks (00:05:19):
Number six now is the two 60 Remington. Correct. Very, very good choice. An

Andrew Napier (00:05:25):
Overlooked caliber. And Mr. Daniel defense likes the two 60. He

Hunter Brooks (00:05:29):
Does. He does. Yeah. Uh, number seven, seven millimeter ot. 8 0 8.

Andrew Napier (00:05:35):
Yes, sir.

Hunter Brooks (00:05:35):
Yes. That's, uh, you know, they're definitely not a bubble caliber. They should definitely be in this conversation. Oh, yeah. But,

Andrew Napier (00:05:42):
And that's a big punch and a little

Hunter Brooks (00:05:44):
Package. You know, I think it, I think it would be a little offended that it's coming in rank seventh. Correct.

Andrew Napier (00:05:48):
Yeah. A lot of people are gonna be upset that 30 30 is either a on the short action list. Right. Or B above 7 0 8, uh, two 60 and number eight, a six millimeter Remington, which is air quotes, old man caliber. Right. But should be on the list nonetheless.

Hunter Brooks (00:06:04):
So number eight on the short action list is six millimeter Remington. And that came in, it squeaked its way in, it

Andrew Napier (00:06:11):
Squeaked its way in. And, uh, I think a couple honorable mentions and the short action were six five by 55 Swiss, uh, seven by 57 Maer. A

Hunter Brooks (00:06:21):
3 2 57 Roberts. 2 57

Andrew Napier (00:06:23):
Roberts. Yeah. Was a, a very close one.

Hunter Brooks (00:06:25):
Yeah, it was close, very close. 35 0 8, 35, 35 wheel

Andrew Napier (00:06:28):
35. Remington was almost took the place of the 30. 30

Garren Meyers (00:06:31):
Yeah. Brooks and Marks with that one. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:06:33):
That, that one hurt. Yeah. And three 50 Remington puts up a hell of an

Hunter Brooks (00:06:36):
Argument. It does. It does

Andrew Napier (00:06:38):
For what it is. It's just so oddball.

Hunter Brooks (00:06:41):
So short action side. So one versus eight, that's your first round is 308 versus six mill Remington. Yep. Uh, then your number 2, 2 43. It's taken on the seven millimeter oh eight. That's gonna, that's gonna be a, that's tough one. That's a

Andrew Napier (00:06:56):
Good fight. Whew. It's

Hunter Brooks (00:06:57):
Gonna be a good fight. It's gonna be, that's gonna be an overtime one right there. Yeah. Uh, three versus six would be six five creedmore versus two 60, believe it or not. That's gonna be a lot closer than you think. Yes. Um, number. Alright, let's see, what was it? Um, and

Andrew Napier (00:07:09):
We're looking at, uh, four five PRC.

Hunter Brooks (00:07:12):
Four five. Yeah. Six five PRC versus 30. 30. Ooh. They, they, uh, they drew a bad one there. <laugh>.

Garren Meyers (00:07:18):
You got old school versus new school, Vincent. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:07:20):
Bad draw. That's a bad draw for 30. 30. I I think I know who's coming out on top of that one too.

Garren Meyers (00:07:25):
Wanna go. Might have upset, man. You wanna

Hunter Brooks (00:07:26):
Do this side? Could

Garren Meyers (00:07:28):
Be, it could be an upset. You. Do

Andrew Napier (00:07:29):
You want to do the short action side and then we will do the long action side, or at least the first round? First round, yeah. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:07:34):
Might as well. So, uh, first, um, first and foremost, that's, uh, your number one seed, 308 versus six millimeter Remington. Um, guys, I, you y'all know where exactly where I'm going with this? Yeah. <laugh>. I own both of these calibers. Love both of these calibers. But for Virginia Whitetails, uh, there is only one caliber in this matchup. And that is the 308 Winchester for many reasons.

Garren Meyers (00:08:00):
Absolutely. Yeah. The 308, I mean, both of 'em are great cartridges and their own respect, but for what the 308 s capable of the availability, um, it just, it just shines, man. It's, it's almost not even a competition between the two hand

Andrew Napier (00:08:15):
Loaded and factory

Hunter Brooks (00:08:16):
Tower. Yeah. Yeah. Lots, lot of selection there. Um, your

Andrew Napier (00:08:20):
Biggest killer on the six millimeter is that there's other, there's two other, three other six millimeters on the list. And its parent case, which is a seven by 57 Maer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's not, uh, it's not the best reloaded caliber. It's a good reloading size and it's good farm, small game size. But I think if we're gonna use, uh, roughly 300 yard and in Virginia deer calibers, I don't think it quite has the punch. 250 to 300 yards. And I don't think it has the all around versatility like the three weight's gonna

Hunter Brooks (00:08:53):
Give you. Yeah. You right.

Andrew Napier (00:08:54):
And the reloading the factory, you're gonna find four flavors by maybe four brands and ammo 308, we shop all day long. Yep. I'm a, I'm with you on the 308 no-brainer.

Hunter Brooks (00:09:05):
So next one down, next bracket down is 6.5 PRC versus the 30 30. We were just talking about this.

Andrew Napier (00:09:13):
Let's skip him cause I drew it outta order. So we'll go number two and seven. What's

Hunter Brooks (00:09:16):
Oh two seven would be

Andrew Napier (00:09:17):
2 43 and 7 0 8.

Hunter Brooks (00:09:19):
2 43 versus seven millimeter oh eight.

Garren Meyers (00:09:22):
This is where, uh, this is where a lot of people first started hunting, uh, when they were kids. You know, 2 43, 7 0 8. A lot of your youth rifles are gonna be chambered in those cows. Yep. A lot of

Hunter Brooks (00:09:29):
Compact rifles.

Garren Meyers (00:09:30):
So you'll find, you'll find a lot of people that are biased one way or another to those two rounds. Um, but the thing with the 2 43 is just how many different loads are out there for that, for that particular round

Hunter Brooks (00:09:39):
Versatility. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (00:09:41):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you wanna shoot a ground hog with a 50 grain bullet, or if you wanna shoot a white tail with a hundred grain bullet, you have that option.

Hunter Brooks (00:09:46):
Yes. You do. Uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of good range with a 2 43 as well as seven audit eight. I mean, it's, you know, and, and, and as far ASCO sensitivity goes, um, I think you're p lightweight rifles. Compact rifles. Yep. You're gonna find a lot of stuff in these two calibers

Andrew Napier (00:10:05):
Model sevens, uh, Remington model sevens. Yeah. Model 70 Featherweights. Yeah. Uh, the Ruger compacts,

Hunter Brooks (00:10:10):
Anything compact and youth like Garren said. Yep. So, um, I've gotta, I've gotta go 2 43 on this one. Yeah. I'm in on

Garren Meyers (00:10:17):
The 2 43. I agree.

Andrew Napier (00:10:18):
All right. It's gonna break some hearts. And

Hunter Brooks (00:10:20):
It is,

Andrew Napier (00:10:21):
And I got, I got Wikipedia pulled up and if anybody is interested in a caliber search, Wikipedia does a perfect breakdown of almost any caliber you can think of. Hand loaded reloaded, uh, factory. Both of them are 308 parent case. So it's very common. Reloading, both of 'em are good size 2 44 and 2 84. I got a little soft spot for the 2 84, cuz it carries a lot of energy. Keeps a lot of speed. It does. But the 2 44 to six millimeter size just kind of zips. Right. A little bit. Very sporty, very all purpose. And if you're looking 300 yards, which is close to the end of your average gun, average man's 2 43 capabilities. But if we're looking at 300 and in, I'm gonna have to give it 2 43.

Hunter Brooks (00:11:04):
Got to. Yeah. And, you know, if, if we're, while we're talking about criteria, let's, let's cover the criteria this real quick. So let, let's see. What

Andrew Napier (00:11:11):
Makes your caliber your

Hunter Brooks (00:11:13):
Caliber? So ballistics obviously is part of the criteria. There's probably three main things that we would say are gonna be good for a good caliber. Uh, a good whitetail caliber in Virginia, ballistics by far is, is number one. And that's just not just velocity, but energy. Correct. Um, availability. So in a perfect world with there's no ammo shortage and things like that, go back two years ago, go back a couple years when an ammo is plentiful, you know, what, what, what's available, what's, what's cost effective mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what's, you know, good price points. And let's also consider reloading what's available and reloading components, bullets, the

Andrew Napier (00:11:51):
Availability in the

Hunter Brooks (00:11:51):
Guns and the themselves. Yeah. So availability of just about everything that encompasses that caliber is, is part of this criteria. Last is the ammo selection. What, uh, what sort of variety do you see in ammo? Different bullet weights, for instance, 308, 1 25, all the way up to, you know, 2 10, 210 grain, you know, lot of versatility there. That's not even

Andrew Napier (00:12:13):
Gotten into reloaded

Hunter Brooks (00:12:14):
Stuff. Yeah. You know, 2 43, like, like Garrin said, anything from about 55 grands up to a hundred hundred and 308 grain now. So, um, so those

Andrew Napier (00:12:23):
Are, and your parent case can help you something too, because Yeah,

Hunter Brooks (00:12:25):
Absolutely.

Andrew Napier (00:12:26):
If make a lot of 308 parent cases and we get a long action, they'll be odd. Six or 3 75 parent case, what can you, how can you make the brass or how can you get the brass right. Because if you shoot a 2 43 or 7 0 8, you can make 308 brass. If you shoot a 308, you can make 2 43 brass. You can go up or down with the brass. Right. So you can either fire form 'em or resize 'em. It's, uh, that certainly helps. It should be in the conversation. Yeah,

Hunter Brooks (00:12:50):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:12:51):
Well, we're looking at deer killing power.

Hunter Brooks (00:12:53):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:12:54):
And all purpose one, go and do it

Hunter Brooks (00:12:55):
All. Yep. There's one caliber. What's it gonna be? Um, alright, so what's next? We got

Andrew Napier (00:13:00):
3 6, 3 6 swing, six five creedmore versus the classic two 60 Remington. Mm.

Hunter Brooks (00:13:07):
Now some people will argue like, these are like identical calibers. That's my argument. That's the closest matchup we got. Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:13:12):
I think it's the closest.

Hunter Brooks (00:13:13):
This is like a Yeah. Pound for pound. I mean, they are almost the same. Yes. Now the, you know, what I like other people like about the creed more versus the two 60 I believe is magazines and semi-autos bolt guns. I think the decreed more is a little better than that as far as feeding goes. Right.

Andrew Napier (00:13:35):
It should, but it shouldn't be Right as a two 60 s a 308 parent case. Correct. But I think Correct. The way its shoulders and

Hunter Brooks (00:13:41):
The way it's the way it shoulders should go. Elongates. Yes, sir. Right. Yep. So, man, I think,

Andrew Napier (00:13:47):
Uh, on paper the two 60 should win. It should, I don't think it will in real life,

Hunter Brooks (00:13:51):
But it's not as ver, i I say name not versatile, but it's, as far as selection goes, it's not there. Right. The creed more everybody knows that is like the king in rifle calibers right now,

Andrew Napier (00:14:04):
Right? Yes. That's a walk in this door, get a gun that shoots by a creep.

Hunter Brooks (00:14:08):
But to, to be honest, to give two 60 full credit, if you're shooting a thousand yards with either one of these calibers, man, it's gonna be almost the same.

Andrew Napier (00:14:18):
Yes. And you're reloading components. You're two 60 is a 308 case. Very familiar, very easy to work with. And a 65 cremo is a 30 TC case, which does not even get an honorable mention. Correct. 30 tc.

Hunter Brooks (00:14:33):
Yeah. A lot of people think it's 308 is a parent case case a little side,

Andrew Napier (00:14:36):
But it's a little sharper shoulder, which makes it a little more accurate than some other, you know, six fives or some other bullets in the same, same area. Right. But the, I mean, if you look at on paper, a two 60 with 140 grain soft point 27, 50 feet per second and a six five cre mo with a 1 43 haunted E L D is 27 10. So they're within 40 feet per second. It's three greens heavier, but view them within 40 feet per second. And the delivered energy on a CRE mo is 2283. And on a two 60 it's 2351. So on paper, the two 60 is king. Right. In real life, I'm all in on a 65 creep.

Hunter Brooks (00:15:18):
I'm I'm the same way because you're, I just wrote it down. Oh

Garren Meyers (00:15:20):
Yeah. You time, she's actually penciled in here.

Andrew Napier (00:15:23):
You're having a hard time getting 2 80, 2 60 guns and two 60 ammo.

Hunter Brooks (00:15:27):
Right?

Garren Meyers (00:15:28):
Yeah. I think we can, uh, we can all agree that the six five has probably taken the, the industry by stormy Hunter. You've been doing this a very long time and I, I mean, I can't think of another caliber that has come onto the scene that fast and has stayed prominent, uh, this long. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:15:43):
And you get it in anything, right? Big guns, little guns, right. Hunting guns, sporting guns. Absolutely. Yeah. It, it's two 60 puts up a good fight, but it's

Hunter Brooks (00:15:50):
Just, yeah. Another one that's not in this is six millimeter creed more mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and a lot, you know, hey, it could have snuck in over the six Remington. Could have, could have. But you know, it's still a fairly new caliber and very, very good, you know. But, um, what's next,

Andrew Napier (00:16:08):
Next we got a six five prc, which is a new kid on the block and the 30 30,

Garren Meyers (00:16:14):
I think I have 30 30 very unpopular opinion on this one. 30,

Andrew Napier (00:16:16):
30. Well, we had to have three people in the room. One, because we want three voices, and two, we can't have a two versus one or one-on-one vote. We gotta have three players in the field. 30 30 is the man

Hunter Brooks (00:16:29):
As a matchup. This could go, I, this could really could go it's split because I mean, the PRC is, is as far as velocity energy, it's, it's definitely got more than the creed. More. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not, not bunch, but it's, it's there. And then, uh, the 30 30, what it lacks is long range, right. Um, accuracy, long range, uh, energy, whatever you wanna say it absolutely. It has a, it, you know, it, it's a little bit slower around. It's, it's definitely shorter. I mean it's, I'm thinking you're, you know, 200 yards, 250 yards. It's a 200

Andrew Napier (00:17:05):
Yard gun

Hunter Brooks (00:17:06):
To me's about your max on that now for Virginia. That's great. I mean, right. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:17:09):
Well your average shots what, a

Hunter Brooks (00:17:11):
Hundred, you know,

Andrew Napier (00:17:11):
87 yards. Yeah. A 20

Hunter Brooks (00:17:13):
Yards. Absolutely. You're just shooting in the, you're hunting Oakwood or Pines or even a cut cutover. That's not, not, not a very big cut. You

Andrew Napier (00:17:21):
Newer style and different style of 30 thirties. It's not your granddaddy's lever gun anymore. You know, they, Henry and Marlin both do black or X model guns where they're, uh, either scout style or full rail scopes. You could put a one to four adjustable, uh, long eye piece on there. Or you could put a traditional three to nine scope Yeah. And pretty much get 200 yard deer killing performance.

Hunter Brooks (00:17:42):
Yeah. Now its drawback is could potentially be accuracy as well. Absolutely. Because it is a, typically it's, it's always been in a lever action rifle, uh, where most of this other stuff here we're talking is both action guns. Sure. And it's

Andrew Napier (00:17:58):
A pretty blunt 130, 150 grain blunt. Yeah. It's not spear pointed like a six five prc. It's

Garren Meyers (00:18:04):
Very comparable to shoot a slow gun.

Andrew Napier (00:18:05):
Yeah. It's like a surgical instrument. Yeah. A 30 30 is very similar to like a 20 gauge slope.

Hunter Brooks (00:18:10):
Yep. Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:18:11):
It's a little faster.

Hunter Brooks (00:18:11):
Uh, but you're very limited on this one. Um, whereas prc, PRC much more versatile prcs lot going for it,

Andrew Napier (00:18:19):
Knocking factory, knocking on 3000 feet per second. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> a lot of energy. Um, we'll see in the next round. But yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:18:28):
So yeah,

Garren Meyers (00:18:29):
Politically 30 PRC

Andrew Napier (00:18:31):
Is so

Garren Meyers (00:18:31):
Cool, man. PRC is definitely superior, but I think 30 30 has a special place in a lot of guys' hearts. Um, it's,

Hunter Brooks (00:18:37):
It's special in your heart, I can tell. Yeah,

Garren Meyers (00:18:38):
Man. You know, it's breaking it right here. I

Hunter Brooks (00:18:41):
Can see if, Hey, look, if you wanna vote for 30 30, you go right ahead. It's

Andrew Napier (00:18:44):
Okay. There's three, there's three votes in

Garren Meyers (00:18:45):
The room. I voted before I came in. It's already on my list. Yeah. I,

Andrew Napier (00:18:48):
I'm on, I'm on prc.

Hunter Brooks (00:18:50):
I'm on prc. I'm

Andrew Napier (00:18:51):
Partial junk cause I own one, but it's extremely accurate. Ammo availability is in the 30 thirties favor.

Garren Meyers (00:18:57):
Yeah. Right now my mind's telling me No, but my body's telling me. Yeah. <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:19:01):
The prc it just seems outshine. Um, it's got the speed, it's got the energy, it's got the belt. You pretty limited on weight. You're gonna be one 40 to 1 47. Yeah, you're pretty, you can load 'em up to 1 56 if you reload 'em. Uh, but that's kind of a proprietary case. That's not a great caliber to reload where a 30, 30 loads really well.

Hunter Brooks (00:19:21):
But if you're hunting that bean field and you got those management, you got those management deer out there, you gotta take care of. And they're

Garren Meyers (00:19:27):
Any slick out there about 300 mm-hmm.

Hunter Brooks (00:19:29):
<affirmative>, if they're hanging out there three to 400 yards, man, you're not, I don't think you're gonna do well with that. 30. 30. Not gonna do. So, I'm sorry, we're gonna try prc. Yeah, I'm sorry. 30. 30.

Garren Meyers (00:19:38):
But

Hunter Brooks (00:19:39):
Prc not

Andrew Napier (00:19:39):
That we're not gonna try. That

Hunter Brooks (00:19:41):
Doesn't work.

Andrew Napier (00:19:42):
<laugh>.

Hunter Brooks (00:19:42):
Uh, so PRC moves into the next round versus the 308 Winchester.

Andrew Napier (00:19:48):
Let you want to jump across to the long

Hunter Brooks (00:19:49):
Action jump. Yeah. We're gonna start on the long actions now. Okay. So we got, this is where it's gonna get fun. This

Andrew Napier (00:19:54):
Is where it's gonna get a l Yeah. Equally as interesting, if not a little more,

Hunter Brooks (00:19:58):
I mean this is, this is where people start to, they get in arguments over this stuff.

Andrew Napier (00:20:02):
People, some people are gonna get their feelings

Hunter Brooks (00:20:03):
Dirty. Yeah. They just

Garren Meyers (00:20:04):
Flying in and there's

Andrew Napier (00:20:05):
E for me, I found it easier to pick 8, 10, 15 long action calibers than I did short action cameras. Right. That because the short actions are so close. And on this list, I'm gonna go ahead and put it out there. There are no short mags, no short wms, no W ssms, um, no Norma Mags nozzle ammo. This is relatively common ammo. Yeah. Other than the prc, which is new on the block in the last couple years, everything else has been out, you know, 10, 12, 50, a hundred years. Uh, they're, they're relatively common or old school calibers.

Hunter Brooks (00:20:39):
So number one, the number one ranked long action over there is a, without question, the two 70 Winchester. The two

Garren Meyers (00:20:46):
70. Oh yeah. Old faithful.

Hunter Brooks (00:20:47):
Old faithful. And that is squaring off in round one versus the number eight ranked, which is the,

Andrew Napier (00:20:54):
It's such tough fight. The

Hunter Brooks (00:20:55):
Nail byer man getting in was, there's a lot of upset calibers over this one. But the 2 64 win mag made it in

Andrew Napier (00:21:01):
64 win mag. And we got a 2 64 man in the room too, man.

Garren Meyers (00:21:05):
2 64, 30, 30. You know, <laugh>, you might have very, very unpopular, but you may have two heart breaks. I gotta, I gotta represent man. Yep,

Hunter Brooks (00:21:11):
That's right. You

Andrew Napier (00:21:11):
May have two heartbreaks

Hunter Brooks (00:21:12):
Today. So you got two 70 Winchester versus 2 64 win mag. Hey, that's, uh, that's gonna be a tight one. That's a tough one. I'm, I'm gonna tell I'm Hey, if you look at the ballistics and all, that's gonna be a tight one. Uh, number two, the second ranked came in. Ooh, that was,

Andrew Napier (00:21:28):
Uh, kind of snuck

Hunter Brooks (00:21:29):
In there. That snuck in at number 2 25 Aught 6 25 aught six. Mm-hmm. 25 aught six will take on the number seven seated two 80. What's two 80 is great out west. And I would we love it out there. Yes.

Andrew Napier (00:21:41):
And I would say two 80 and two 80 Aley as the same caliber.

Hunter Brooks (00:21:44):
Yeah. It's actually you might as well include,

Andrew Napier (00:21:46):
But you can find them chamber new and two 80 Aley.

Hunter Brooks (00:21:48):
Yeah. Yep. Uh, number three third ranked, uh, of of course the 30 aught, six

Garren Meyers (00:21:54):
America's caliber.

Hunter Brooks (00:21:55):
America's caliber, you know, but you know, the Cowboys were America's team, but they can't win the Super Bowl every year. Correct. But, you

Andrew Napier (00:22:02):
Know, 30 out six is just a classic soft spot in everybody's

Hunter Brooks (00:22:05):
Heart. And that will be taken on the six seated seven millimeter Remington Magnum. Mm-hmm.

Andrew Napier (00:22:09):
And if you start getting west of about Illinois, everybody shoots a seven mag or a

Hunter Brooks (00:22:15):
Variant. I was gonna say two four variant. I was gonna say West of short pump, but pretty much.

Andrew Napier (00:22:19):
Yeah, pretty much west of Charlottesville. They're shooting, uh, seven Mag. Yeah. Some of the boys in Mont are shooting seven mags. Yeah. The b a r man, it just rings 'em off.

Hunter Brooks (00:22:30):
So who, we got the four. All right. So four and five seed is uh alright. Four seed, 300 prc, which they came in there, they came in there pretty high.

Andrew Napier (00:22:39):
It snuck in front of its competition.

Hunter Brooks (00:22:41):
It did. And against tough the 300 win mag. Yes. That is a uh, man, that's gonna be a knockdown drag out fight right there. That's gonna be

Andrew Napier (00:22:48):
Tough. And there's gonna be a whole lot of upset people. Most of that was just a stunt so that we could, you know, cause a little debate cuz the win mag should outrank the prc, but sneaking it in at four and five is pretty

Hunter Brooks (00:22:58):
Close. Yeah. It's a good matchup. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (00:23:00):
It's gonna be a slug fest. It

Hunter Brooks (00:23:01):
Is. Yep. First matchup is 2 70, 2 64. No

Andrew Napier (00:23:05):
Brainer.

Hunter Brooks (00:23:06):
Very, very

Garren Meyers (00:23:07):
2 64 no brainer. <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:23:10):
Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:23:11):
I gotta disagree.

Andrew Napier (00:23:13):
Respectfully disagree.

Hunter Brooks (00:23:14):
Yeah. The two 70 is to me, uh, that's gotta be, that's gotta overtake the 2 64 1 mag for, for not just Ballistically. I, I can't, I can't agree there. I I do like the, I do like the magnum, but just availability. You're talking about the selection.

Garren Meyers (00:23:33):
The 26 caliber that started at all, man. This is true. You get your six five, your six five PRC six

Andrew Napier (00:23:38):
Five

Garren Meyers (00:23:38):
Weatherby. This is the, this is the granddaddy right here. So

Hunter Brooks (00:23:41):
It's retired.

Garren Meyers (00:23:42):
I mean, I <laugh>

Andrew Napier (00:23:44):
Does this belong on the mantle or in the gun? Yeah. God. Which one's you gonna be, man? Uh,

Hunter Brooks (00:23:49):
How many people make a 2 64 win mag now other than a custom rifle

Garren Meyers (00:23:53):
Building? Hey man, I got a super great in the safe, ready to go

Hunter Brooks (00:23:56):
<laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:23:57):
If you look at 'em on paper, 3,200 feet per second with 140 grand bullet and almost 3,200 foot pounds of energy, it rocks getting it. 64 rocks.

Hunter Brooks (00:24:07):
It is getting it.

Andrew Napier (00:24:08):
But we're shooting 300 yards Virginia deer. Yeah. So for this argument, I would take, for me, I'd take 150 grain federal fusion. Yeah. You know, rocking almost 2,900 feet per second. Similar on energy. I'm gonna take the two 70 for the recoil for the parent

Hunter Brooks (00:24:24):
Case. It's not a tenderizer either.

Andrew Napier (00:24:26):
It's not gonna rip a hole in a 90 pound dough. It's, it's gonna do what it needs to do inside of Virginia's, uh,

Garren Meyers (00:24:33):
90 pounds. You're shooting big dough, man. That's a big dough.

Andrew Napier (00:24:35):
Yeah. <laugh>. Those are breeders, man. That's a good one. I like

Garren Meyers (00:24:37):
That. 60 pound biscuit deer man. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:24:39):
Oh, they, they get their

Garren Meyers (00:24:41):
Chance too. No, but talking about availability too, I mean, you can find a two 70 pretty much in any manufacturer. It's gonna offer one. Yeah. Uh, ammunition availability. You can be able to find that

Andrew Napier (00:24:48):
Is one 30 or one 50. Right. You see some, see some stuff in the middle. You see, I think Fusion does a one 40. Yeah. Uh, which is pretty good load. But, but 1 30, 1 50 should cover you pretty much across the state. Yeah. Um, 2 64 is gonna be a little lighter. I'm just gonna zip right through 'em. And I just don't think you quite need it right here. Uh, but that's a good fight. 2 64 is an awesome caliber. It is. Andy Clay hears it's gonna be real upset.

Hunter Brooks (00:25:12):
<laugh>. That's all right. Yeah, Don,

Garren Meyers (00:25:14):
Don't let my grandfather listen to,

Andrew Napier (00:25:15):
There's some old guy crying in his Wheaties right

Hunter Brooks (00:25:17):
Now. <laugh>. All right, next one is next. Matchup two seven matchup 25 O six versus the two 80. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, personally I don't think we need to waste much time on this matchup because the two 80 is absolutely not going to take out the 25 O six. No, not in Virginia. Maybe in Wyoming it could,

Andrew Napier (00:25:38):
It could put up a fight, but it's not gonna be today. No. Two 80 s a very good caliber. A whole lot of people

Hunter Brooks (00:25:45):
Have Thanks for coming to the tournament. Yeah. Thanks

Andrew Napier (00:25:46):
For showing up.

Hunter Brooks (00:25:47):
But yeah, you're not, you're not in it anymore.

Andrew Napier (00:25:50):
I don't think so. I think two 70 or No, I'm still in two 70, man. I'm so excited. 25 0 6 is, it just does it, you know, nice and light. Yep. Nice and light recoil. Nice and crisp recoil. Um, two 80 is gonna have a little more punch on both ends. Right. On the deer and on your shoulder. You just don't find ammo for

Garren Meyers (00:26:08):
You. I think

Andrew Napier (00:26:09):
You're gonna find a couple

Hunter Brooks (00:26:09):
Flavors. Now you're two 70 and you're 25 0 6 parent cases 30, 36 too. So, you know, another little, uh, advantage there. And then little, little bit of info in case anybody, it was the two 80 and the two 80 is the same way. Yep. Yep.

Garren Meyers (00:26:25):
Even though the two 80 got stomped out. Um, I do think both of those calibers are really overlooked. Deer hunting cartridges, calibers, you know, uh, a lot of guys don't even consider those. Uh, they're both great, but 25 out six is just

Hunter Brooks (00:26:36):
Superior. Yeah. And I think out, well out west, a lot of people love two 80 out there because it's their, it's like their elk caliber out there. They love it. Yep. They love it. It's, and it's, and seven, seven rim mag is huge too. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:26:48):
And for people who don't know what it is, it's just a big two 70.

Hunter Brooks (00:26:50):
That's right. Right. That's all. It's,

Andrew Napier (00:26:51):
If you don't think your two 70 s on quite enough, two 80 and I, it's barely any different. One of 'em is 2 77, 1 of 'em is 2 84, but it just holds a couple more grains and to that energy just a little better. Yep. But 300 yard deer killer. That's what

Hunter Brooks (00:27:03):
We're after. That's what we're after. Trying

Garren Meyers (00:27:05):
To kill these bee eaters, man. And

Andrew Napier (00:27:06):
I'm taking the 25 on six another shout out to Western Hanover. Cause that is their caliber, man. Yes, it is. That is their caliber.

Hunter Brooks (00:27:12):
<laugh>. Uh, alright. Right. Three three seated. 36 versus a seven mag. This is tough, man. This is a tough one. This's a tough one. But again, we're talking Virginia,

Andrew Napier (00:27:23):
Not world. If we're going worldwide or countrywide or lower 48, I'm taking seven mag. But where we sit today Yeah. In Glen Allen. I'm taking the

Hunter Brooks (00:27:31):
Odd six. The odd six I gotta go with it is America's caliber. Um,

Garren Meyers (00:27:35):
That's the Japanese <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:27:37):
That's the Germans.

Hunter Brooks (00:27:39):
I mean it's, uh, <laugh>

Garren Meyers (00:27:41):
Back to back world

Hunter Brooks (00:27:42):
Champs. Back to back. It, it, it it's, it's won some wars, man. Correct. Uh, the s notice

Andrew Napier (00:27:46):
That we don't have any French calibers

Hunter Brooks (00:27:48):
In here. That Yeah, that's true.

Andrew Napier (00:27:50):
<laugh> seven mag puts up a, a hell of a

Hunter Brooks (00:27:53):
Fight. It does. Man. Lost fight. That's a, it

Andrew Napier (00:27:55):
Does 3 75 case. It totes a lot of powder. It pushes a 2 84 bullet really hard, really fast. A lot of energy. If I was going continental or North America, I would take a seven mag. But I'm sitting in a bean field in Virginia with a 300 yard gun. I'm gonna take the American Classic. Oh yeah. Take the odd chicks in a with one gun blued, preferably gloss scope. I'm taking, I'm

Garren Meyers (00:28:18):
Talking Bdl. I'm

Andrew Napier (00:28:19):
Talking

Hunter Brooks (00:28:19):
Bdl. Yeah man. Classic Red

Andrew Napier (00:28:21):
Seal mounts loophole gloss. Three and a half

Hunter Brooks (00:28:23):
To 10 <laugh>.

Garren Meyers (00:28:24):
I would say that, that the 30 out six is probably your most versatile long action, uh, cartridges that's available. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:28:29):
That's gonna be a good fight for the remainder of your bracket.

Hunter Brooks (00:28:32):
It is. Cuz you know, it's, it's kind of like a lot of people think, you know, you've asked a lot of que you ask a lot of people, you know, what's your, what's your ultimate caliber of choice? And almost everybody just off the top of their head, they'll say, oh, 30 out six. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:28:46):
And it's known as as, um, America's caliber. Yeah. It just, yeah. With every, uh, so that the box you buy a a small donation goes to save a bald eagle.

Hunter Brooks (00:28:54):
That's right. <laugh>. <laugh>. All right. Last matchup for the round one is 300 PRC versus the 300 win Mag.

Garren Meyers (00:29:04):
Another old school. New school debate. Old

Andrew Napier (00:29:06):
School. New school, man. Mm. You're a 300 man. You're three hundred's Not on this list.

Hunter Brooks (00:29:11):
It's not But you're a 300 man. Yeah, it's, it's in a different, it's, it's in a, it's a whole nother league, whole other league. That's the 300 Remington ultra mag. Um, but that, yeah, that doesn't, we don't need that in Virginia. <laugh>, if you wanna bang, I, if I wanna bang steal at long distances of that, you want a one

Andrew Napier (00:29:27):
Mile gun or

Hunter Brooks (00:29:28):
You want, if I need to take it l hunting. Correct, I'll do

Andrew Napier (00:29:30):
That. Big gun, big game. Yeah. That's what it's there for. And these two similar argument, big gun for big game, but they both do really well. Long range. They both do really well on steel and on paper. They're both very accurate. Yes. He, I just think you suffer with the prc cuz he is a new kid on the block. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, unlike his brother, the 65 PRC where he shines 300 prcs kind of in the wind mag shadow.

Hunter Brooks (00:29:54):
Yes.

Andrew Napier (00:29:56):
I wanna say prc, but the wind mag just crushed it.

Hunter Brooks (00:29:58):
Uh, I think with the availability and ammunition, the selection, uh, I would probably have to lean that way too and go Absolutely. Three under wind mag

Andrew Napier (00:30:06):
You're loading the same bullets, same primers. Most of 'em probably take same powder.

Hunter Brooks (00:30:10):
It's a, it's another classic. It's been around a lot longer. That's a,

Garren Meyers (00:30:13):
Yeah. If you, if you think Magnum cartridges, that's the first one that comes to mind. Three under wind mag. Yeah. Yep.

Hunter Brooks (00:30:19):
Little bit of overkill for Virginia still though. It's

Andrew Napier (00:30:21):
Still a little hot.

Hunter Brooks (00:30:22):
It's got, it's definitely, definitely made it in. Correct.

Andrew Napier (00:30:25):
You don't wanna track a deal. That's a good

Hunter Brooks (00:30:27):
One. So we got the Elite eight. Now let's go back over to the short action side. Okay? Mm-hmm. It's,

Andrew Napier (00:30:33):
It is two tough ones. It's two nail biters. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>, dude, nail biters.

Hunter Brooks (00:30:38):
Uh, second round 308 took out six millimeter. 65 PRC took out the 30. 30. So that's, uh, that's a showdown between the 308 and the 65 prc. Hmm.

Andrew Napier (00:30:52):
Piggybacking off the 300 prc I'm gonna take the 308 because it, the new kid is just gonna have to step aside. Yeah. 308.

Hunter Brooks (00:31:01):
It doesn't have the, there's

Andrew Napier (00:31:02):
No wrong in any caliber that we've listed in these 16 great answers. Any honorable mentions we have, we'll give you just fine. This

Hunter Brooks (00:31:09):
Doesn't, it's not enough experience there. Correct.

Andrew Napier (00:31:10):
Yeah. I'm not, maybe

Hunter Brooks (00:31:12):
Next year

Andrew Napier (00:31:12):
I don't want a 20. Yeah. I don't want a 20 year old general giving me commands. I want the 40 year old general's. Right. To me commands. I want the proven kind of the old faithful. It

Hunter Brooks (00:31:21):
Doesn't, I'm going with the, I'm going with the most prolific military cartridges of all time too. That's, well, other than the 36 other,

Andrew Napier (00:31:29):
The odd six, the 308 6,

Hunter Brooks (00:31:30):
I may fight it

Andrew Napier (00:31:30):
Out at

Hunter Brooks (00:31:31):
The end. It's exactly. It's

Garren Meyers (00:31:32):
Father and son man. Correct.

Andrew Napier (00:31:33):
Correct.

Hunter Brooks (00:31:33):
And so what's that kid that's, that's be a cage match if you think about it. That's, uh,

Andrew Napier (00:31:37):
Who it's tough. 300 POC puts a real good fight and it's probably a better argument for it, but for the three opinions in this room, and we're carrying the whole state of Virginia on our back. Yeah. I'm gonna say 308.

Hunter Brooks (00:31:49):
308. 308. 308.

Andrew Napier (00:31:50):
Because it's that people already own them. Yep. They're very comfortable with them. The diversity, the ballistics, it does it all. Yep. Prcs just too, too shiny, too new.

Hunter Brooks (00:32:00):
308 advances to the final four, final four next matchup. 2 43 Winchester versus the 6.5 more <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:32:10):
That's tough. That's tough.

Garren Meyers (00:32:11):
If you're talking, if you're talking strictly a deer rifle, um, I would, I would pick the creed more. Man. You're, you're stepping up into a 140 grain bullet, a hundred forty, three hundred forty seven grain bullet. Um, you're gonna get more distance out of it. If you gotta make that 300 yard shot, 2 43, it's tapering off. Um, as far as the kinetic energy, I feel at that distance. So I, I would take the creed more for a deer rifle. Now if you want a rifle that is your one gun is gonna do it all. You wanna shoot a groundhog, you wanna shoot a coyote, uh, and a deer. I'd take the 2 43, but strictly a deer rifle, I would go creep more.

Andrew Napier (00:32:49):
That's a tough fight.

Hunter Brooks (00:32:50):
That's tough, man. That's tough.

Andrew Napier (00:32:52):
I don't know if I voted yet. I'd like to go over the criteria one more time.

Hunter Brooks (00:32:56):
So let's go back. All right. So let's just, we every, we know about six five creedmore. Now you, you do have every anything down to a 95 green bullet. You're

Andrew Napier (00:33:05):
95 to

Hunter Brooks (00:33:05):
One to about 1 40, 1 56. Now with Burger Burger's got some, um, 1 56,

Andrew Napier (00:33:10):
But pretty much

Hunter Brooks (00:33:11):
1 43, 1 40 to 1 43. And then of course people will argue the one 30 is the best way. Yeah. 1 29. It just depends what you're doing.

Andrew Napier (00:33:19):
Dmax Or one 30.

Hunter Brooks (00:33:19):
Yep. If I'm hunting, I'm probably going something around one 40. 1 43. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, 2 43 like you said earlier, Garron, you can start around a 50, 55 grand bullet and you can get up to about 108 grain. Yeah. Somewhere.

Andrew Napier (00:33:34):
One,

Hunter Brooks (00:33:34):
Oh, somewhere around 1 0 5, 1 0 8 right now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that, that's if you're reloading too. Um, but I, man, you know, less recoil. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, lot of choices in ammo, creedmore still. Lot of choices in ammo there.

Andrew Napier (00:33:50):
Plenty of choices if you get back,

Hunter Brooks (00:33:52):
You're dealing with a little more energy. And I'll, I'll bet you the on paper it's gonna tell you as far as energy goes, the creed more has probably got the advantage here.

Andrew Napier (00:34:01):
It it should, it should. I'm gonna look it up real quick. Go back to the criteria real quick

Hunter Brooks (00:34:05):
And we'll see.

Andrew Napier (00:34:06):
See what we're

Hunter Brooks (00:34:07):
Really arguing first and foremost, ballistics. But let's talk about short range ballistics. Uh, ballistic coefficient should not even be brought up in this part of the conversation because that's not gonna matter. Right. To me.

Andrew Napier (00:34:22):
Correct.

Hunter Brooks (00:34:23):
And so less than four or 500 yards, some 300 yards matter. Right? Yep. So BC's not gonna be a contributing factor factor to this, this decision. Now as far as long range efficiency, I think we know who the king is on this. Yeah, absolutely. There's no question. That's a different argument. That's a different argument. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, velocity, uh, you know, I think you're gonna,

Andrew Napier (00:34:45):
God it's just we're to use the heavy side on a 2 43. Uh, we're looking at a hundred grain 29 60 at the muzzle, which is pretty good and a little

Hunter Brooks (00:34:57):
Short on the 2 43. 2 43. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:34:59):
It's pretty good. But it's delivering 1945 foot pounds energy, so it's a whole lot faster than it is strong. And then if you reference to six five creemore, and we'll use the 1 43 for an example, 27 10 out the barrel over almost 500 feet. Almost 500 foot pounds of energy higher. Right. Almost 2300.

Hunter Brooks (00:35:19):
Sure.

Andrew Napier (00:35:20):
It pains me to do it, but I'm gonna go with the CRE more really? Because I want to see the 308 in the creedmore. Go ahead. Ahead.

Hunter Brooks (00:35:29):
Well I think we were kind of destined for that anyway. Yes.

Andrew Napier (00:35:32):
I'm gonna go creedmore. It hurts. I really hope my dad doesn't listen to this.

Hunter Brooks (00:35:35):
I know. My grand, my

Andrew Napier (00:35:37):
Grandfather's rolling over in his

Hunter Brooks (00:35:38):
Grave. Believe me right now, I want to just say, yeah, 2 43 beats this. But it doesn't, I mean it's, that's,

Andrew Napier (00:35:44):
That's thinking with your heart, not

Hunter Brooks (00:35:45):
Your mind. It, it just doesn't do it. I mean, cuz I'm a huge 2 43 fan. Me too. And you know, uh, uh, you know, I just, I can't, I can't deny what the numbers say. If

Andrew Napier (00:35:55):
Versatility was in our criteria, I would say 2 43. Yeah. But we're buying a Deere rifle or a specific purpose. Yep. If we were buying one gun to shoot coyotes, ground, hogs, uh, paper, everything you wanna shoot inside of 300 yards, I would probably go 2 43. But you want a hundred to 300 yard deer rifle. I'm take the creedmore.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:16):
Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:36:17):
It hurts. I'll, it

Hunter Brooks (00:36:18):
Hurts. I'm with you. Garn.

Garren Meyers (00:36:20):
Yeah, Creedmore for sure.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:22):
Creedmore man.

Andrew Napier (00:36:23):
It no stomach's upset.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:25):
I know that hurts, man. I feel bad about it. It hurts. I do too. But what an upset though. I do too.

Andrew Napier (00:36:28):
I do

Hunter Brooks (00:36:29):
Too. <laugh> The creedmore. That's

Andrew Napier (00:36:30):
A, that's a, that's a three, two upset.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:31):
Hey. You know, and a lot of people could argue that it shouldn't have been, but hey, I get it. I get

Andrew Napier (00:36:36):
It. But guys are still crying over the two 60.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:38):
I know <laugh>. I know.

Garren Meyers (00:36:39):
I'm so upset about this 30 30, man, I didn't forget that.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:42):
<laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:36:43):
All right, go back on the other side. Uh, two 70 versus the win mag.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:48):
All right. Two 70 versus the 300 win mag. Easy for me.

Andrew Napier (00:36:52):
Easy for me.

Hunter Brooks (00:36:53):
And here's why. Uh, two 70. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> wins this every day. Yes. Um,

Andrew Napier (00:37:00):
Three to one, but not 10 to one.

Hunter Brooks (00:37:02):
Less three one win mag puts up a good fight. It does. But let, let Hey, one less recoil. Yes. Do you, you know, do you really need that much in Virginia? Sure. Correct. No. Um, you still got lots of ca, lots of uh, lots of ammo to choose from, lots of reload components. Everything. I mean a lot of the stuff is built around that calendar

Andrew Napier (00:37:23):
And you're going with a belted case versus a non belted case. Exactly.

Hunter Brooks (00:37:26):
So

Andrew Napier (00:37:26):
You know, you're gonna cut the recoil and reloading is gonna be easier in a two 70. Yep. Factory ammo is gonna be about the same. This is where ammo cost will take over. Yep. Two 70 is significantly cheaper to shoot

Hunter Brooks (00:37:37):
Ammo, cost will will come in there. And then there's selection in rifles themselves. Correct? Absolutely.

Andrew Napier (00:37:41):
Anything. Everyone in

Hunter Brooks (00:37:42):
Two 70, I think the first caliber that they put on the list for anybody that's making a rifle now is a 2 71. Correct. That's the first one they say. Yep. That's a new brand and it's

Andrew Napier (00:37:52):
Not in any target gun. Yep. This is a hunting calibers.

Hunter Brooks (00:37:55):
Hunting caliber. Yep. That's what we're talking about. Hunting. Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:37:58):
I also mention two 70 short mag, but I have no interest in short mags.

Hunter Brooks (00:38:02):
Ah man.

Andrew Napier (00:38:03):
It does great for a whole lot of people. I'm not one of those

Hunter Brooks (00:38:05):
People. I get this like sick feeling in my stomach, like an acid reflux feeling. I hear about Wsm or Ws sms. I mean,

Andrew Napier (00:38:13):
Uh, it just doesn't do it for

Garren Meyers (00:38:14):
Me. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Hunter Brooks (00:38:16):
That's <laugh>. Exactly.

Andrew Napier (00:38:17):
<laugh>. Exactly.

Hunter Brooks (00:38:18):
It's a good way to put it. Exactly. That's an awesome way to put it. All right, so the next one is uh, big brother, little brother. Yep. They meet 25 O six versus the 30 aught six.

Andrew Napier (00:38:29):
This is tougher than it sounds. I

Garren Meyers (00:38:30):
Feel like I'm gonna have another unpopular opinion here. <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:38:33):
I'd like

Garren Meyers (00:38:33):
To hear it. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off the Weezer right now.

Andrew Napier (00:38:36):
You're going

Garren Meyers (00:38:36):
36? I'm going 30 odd six. Okay. You're

Andrew Napier (00:38:37):
Going, you're gonna go with the

Garren Meyers (00:38:38):
Original. I'm going with the king. 30 odd six. Um, it's just like I said earlier, it's, it's the most versatile long action round on the list. Uh, it's been around for over a hundred years. You can find it and any make and model you can find ammo anywhere. It's

Hunter Brooks (00:38:52):
Legendary. It is

Andrew Napier (00:38:53):
Legendary.

Hunter Brooks (00:38:54):
Exactly. Legendary.

Andrew Napier (00:38:55):
The alt six is typically not a one hole group rifle. It is a cloverleaf rifle or a sub one inch rifle,

Hunter Brooks (00:39:04):
But it kills

Andrew Napier (00:39:05):
And that's sub three inches at 300 yards. Yeah. It's very good. Yeah. Very good. You know that's smaller in your fist. The 25 aught six can be a one hole rifle or a little tighter cloverleaf. It's probably gonna out accuracy the 36. Yeah. I don't think it's gonna out kill a deer in 300 yards and dead is dead. So it is. How dead can it be? It is a different

Hunter Brooks (00:39:24):
Argument. A lot of people are probably disagreeing with this with our discussion on this right now. Yeah. But 25 6 also, you are limited to your bullet weights there as well.

Garren Meyers (00:39:34):
Absolutely.

Andrew Napier (00:39:34):
You're pretty much a hundred to 1 17, 1 20.

Hunter Brooks (00:39:37):
I'm not saying you need 180 grain bullet to shoot a whitetail in Virginia either, but um,

Andrew Napier (00:39:43):
And look at an O six. You can, you can find them loaded. If you're a local hunter and you go on some big game hunts, you can find reduced recoil 125 grand. Oh yeah. Loads. Yep. You know, which is a really a water down 308 Yep. That you could load in your all six. Shoot anything you want inside a three, when you go in your big elk hunt, you load a 180 s or two 10 s and you go do your big boy stuff. I'm with you. It hurts cuz I do think a 25 odd six is a better caliber but head to head for what we're going for. I'm gonna go 30 out six

Hunter Brooks (00:40:10):
Heading to the final four

Andrew Napier (00:40:12):
And the military history. Yeah. Just gives it a little boost forward.

Hunter Brooks (00:40:16):
Okay. So the final four,

Andrew Napier (00:40:20):
Let's do the long action and then we'll get into the main

Hunter Brooks (00:40:22):
Topic. Yeah. Cuz uh, you know, some people will all, you know, you know, you watch like the Final four and they all always say Yeah, well that matchup between those two teams, that that probably should have been the national championship. Correct. Well that's kind of what the case is with that 308 versus six five creedmore. Yeah, sure. But we got a, you know, two 70 versus 30 0 6.

Andrew Napier (00:40:42):
That's a solid matchup. It is solid. It's solid.

Hunter Brooks (00:40:44):
Solid,

Andrew Napier (00:40:45):
Solid, solid

Hunter Brooks (00:40:45):
Match. Um hmm.

Andrew Napier (00:40:48):
Take everything we've brought up so far

Garren Meyers (00:40:51):
As much as I don't want to, the

Andrew Napier (00:40:52):
Load diversity, the accuracy, the long range performance, the, the the wind effect, which isn't that big of a deal. Right. To 300 yards. 30 odd six screams. Take me home. Yeah. But my, my heart is telling me two 70,

Garren Meyers (00:41:06):
The thing with the two 70, you know, versus, and again, you know, you hit the nail in the head with a 30 odd six getting those light, you know, reduced recoil loads. But for, for your average guy a two 70, it's a sweet spot. 130 grand bullet's not gonna kick you that hard when you pull the trigger. Correct. Um, and it, it shoots extremely flat. You know, a 300 yard deer rifle. It's really hard to argue with.

Andrew Napier (00:41:24):
You can cite in at a hundred or 200 and you're pretty much point and shoot out to 300. Right?

Hunter Brooks (00:41:28):
Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:41:29):
Which is a big selling point on guys who don't want long range coats. They don't want custom dial turrets, they don't wanna shoot off a radical. They want a gun. They cite in at two and shoot anything three and in. Right. It's a big selling point. That 30 out six as as good as it is, it's consistent. It's gonna drop, but it's gonna drop consistently. It's gonna be like throwing a big hanging curve ball. It's gonna fall every time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> nice and smooth. Two 70, it's gonna be like throwing a little slider. Yep. Not gonna break quite as much. It's gonna get exactly where you want to go. I'm taking the two 70 to the final round,

Hunter Brooks (00:41:58):
Karen,

Garren Meyers (00:42:01):
For a Virginia Whitetail rifle. And

Andrew Napier (00:42:03):
That's the

Garren Meyers (00:42:03):
Key. Um, which is, which is what we're doing here. I would, I would have to take the two 70 and it hurts.

Andrew Napier (00:42:09):
Um, I don't do that with a smile on my

Garren Meyers (00:42:11):
Face. I think the 30 out six is a superior round, uh, in general. I mean you can take that 30 out six and kill anything in North America. Sure. Sure. Um, so if I was gonna have one big game hunting rifle, I'm gonna take a 30 out six. Uh, but if I just want strictly a Virginia Whitetail rifle, I'm gonna take a two 70

Andrew Napier (00:42:29):
And we're doing a Virginia rifle debate, come back maybe in the future and we'll do a countrywide rifle

Hunter Brooks (00:42:35):
Debate. See both of y'all are going two 70 so I don't have to vote on this so I don't have to feel bad. You don't

Andrew Napier (00:42:39):
Have to vote, but we'd like

Hunter Brooks (00:42:40):
To hear. No, I'm kidding. I I would have to agree the two 70 has the advantage here,

Andrew Napier (00:42:46):
Kind of has the crown in this

Hunter Brooks (00:42:47):
Area and not, not to mention doing this for as long as I have, just seeing what people buy and seeing what people say or hearing what people say. They are always talking the, the two 70 s always part of their conversation. Yes. When it comes to whitetail deer hunting in Virginia. And I feel like it has grown to that over, over the last two to three decades. Yep. Um, for whatever

Andrew Napier (00:43:08):
Reason it getting a little push to the side because some of the newer stuff, the, uh, the PRCS and the way the short actions have caught up, it's, it's kind of getting a little pushed to the side. But anybody,

Hunter Brooks (00:43:20):
Well pretty much should,

Andrew Napier (00:43:20):
You're 35 to 65 years old. Yeah. Wants that two.

Hunter Brooks (00:43:23):
Well they're, and they, and they shoot it because their dad shot it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and their and their or their granddad shot it. Yeah. And you

Andrew Napier (00:43:28):
Go back 30 years ago, you didn't have the caliber diversity. Yeah. So you got a lot of loyal customers and, and, and buyers, you know, in the seventies, eighties. Right. The two seventies.

Hunter Brooks (00:43:37):
But you know, this is not to say, hey, you know, if anybody's interested in buying their first rifle and, uh, they're not sure what caliber, uh, you know, don't, don't discount the 30 out six. No. Do not discount it. Um,

Andrew Napier (00:43:51):
And these would be the four calibers that if a guy came in and said, I want a deer hunt. I wouldn't say you should look at a 308 ACC creed more a two 70 in an AL six. That's basically it. Four calibers

Hunter Brooks (00:44:00):
I would look at. And, and and it's really hard to argue that. Yes. You know, if you narrowed it down to four of 'em. I think we did. I mean these are the four Yeah. Against the you winners. Absolutely. Two 70 goes to the

Andrew Napier (00:44:10):
2 74. The

Hunter Brooks (00:44:11):
Win for the win did the championship. I like it to face the winner of 308 versus 6 5 3.

Garren Meyers (00:44:17):
Is there a winner?

Andrew Napier (00:44:18):
Ooh. I asked a guy earlier, I was just taking a little pole. I said, what do you think is the best caliber in Virginia? He said, whatever you can kill that deer with. It's fine. <laugh>. He had a good

Hunter Brooks (00:44:26):
Point. So what's the point of all this

Andrew Napier (00:44:28):
Fun <laugh> No, he's right though. He's right. He's right. Whatever works for you. If you're a seven millimeter oh eight guy, you're gonna shoot 140 grand Federal Fusion. I'm gonna shoot that the rest of my life. Go for it. But it's, it's, that is for you.

Hunter Brooks (00:44:40):
It's fun to argue about this stuff,

Andrew Napier (00:44:41):
Man. It's just fun to talk. It's fun to get people fired

Garren Meyers (00:44:43):
Out here. 22, 2 50 for all my outlaws out there. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:44:46):
Hey, this, I'm

Andrew Napier (00:44:47):
Telling you, there's a lot of states you can shoot just anything set,

Garren Meyers (00:44:50):
Have

Hunter Brooks (00:44:51):
An energy report or you know, damage, you know, you got damage permits and stuff.

Andrew Napier (00:44:54):
2, 2 50 will straight to flatten a deer that will, and your average shooter's ability is probably 300 yards an in. I mean, that will murder

Hunter Brooks (00:45:02):
A deer. That's the best. Absolutely.

Garren Meyers (00:45:03):
I've heard that. It'll flatten a deer. I don't know that.

Andrew Napier (00:45:05):
I don't know that firsthand,

Garren Meyers (00:45:06):
But yeah, I do know a guy. What's

Andrew Napier (00:45:07):
What the boys are saying

Hunter Brooks (00:45:08):
That's, they say, they say that's the the ultimate light switch caliber. Yes, you can, you can turn the light switch off with that one. So, and

Andrew Napier (00:45:14):
It's with a 40 grain bullet, you can still hit him in the chest and kill him.

Hunter Brooks (00:45:17):
Yeah.

Garren Meyers (00:45:17):
Speed kills man. Speed.

Andrew Napier (00:45:18):
Nothing kills like 4,000 feet per second man <laugh>. That's right. It's like a lightning rod. But you know, this is a tough one here. This is really tough.

Hunter Brooks (00:45:26):
This is tough. Uh, there's lots of arguments for this. So first and foremost, I think you guys know where I stand on this. Absolutely. I'm in both these calibers. I'm also a creedmore guy. I've got a Creedmore rifle. Love it. Got a 308 shot. 308 for a long time. We're talking about short range hunting. I'm going 30 caliber. I'm gonna punch

Andrew Napier (00:45:47):
Him every time. Your chest.

Hunter Brooks (00:45:48):
Yes. I'm doing it every time.

Andrew Napier (00:45:49):
That's the only time we've brought up the caliber difference. Yep. And I was gonna say the exact same thing. I'm taking the extra weight, I'm taking the same recoil and I will lose a hundred feet per second, if any. Yep. And I'm gonna take the extra size. I'm gonna take the three

Hunter Brooks (00:46:02):
Oh weight and I'm going 1 68 or 1 75 grain, 1 68

Andrew Napier (00:46:06):
Normally a sweet spot. And the six five, the 1 43 1 41 43 is kind the sweet spot. Yeah, it is plenty, but it's not

Hunter Brooks (00:46:14):
What I want. And we're not talking about long-range stuff. If we, if just 250

Andrew Napier (00:46:18):
Yard, quarter and away

Hunter Brooks (00:46:19):
Shot, if we were talking about a long-range precision rifle that you can, that you wanna shoot long distance with mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and hit bang steel eight inch plates at a thousand, 1200, 1400 yards. I have a different answer. Totally different. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Andrew Napier (00:46:31):
Different approach. Yeah. And I'd probably have a different

Garren Meyers (00:46:33):
Answer. Yeah. If I wanted to poke holes and paper, I would take the six five creed more, but if you wanna kill that deer when it's raining, you wanna drop 'em in the field. Yes. Just a

Hunter Brooks (00:46:41):
Little harder. I like, I like hammer time. That's it. Yeah. Yes. Um, I'm taking the oh eight and I'm taking 308, man.

Andrew Napier (00:46:48):
And if you're,

Hunter Brooks (00:46:49):
And honestly, I, I, there was not much thinking to this in, in my opinion,

Andrew Napier (00:46:52):
When it got, well, I knew looking at the, I knew, looking at the lineup. Let's see how it's gonna end up. Yeah. I could figure it out. But look at it on the paper again. The 1 43, 2700 feet per second. Uh, to get a medium to heavy weight 308, you're about 1 68. You're 27 50, you're very close in speed. Yep. And you're punching with, uh, two to 400 more feet per second. Yeah. So there, there's a classic debate across the whole gun world, or what are we shooting 308 to create more long distance, short distance, OJI and BC and loading this and special powder. It doesn't matter. But I'm taking the 308

Hunter Brooks (00:47:27):
Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Napier (00:47:29):
To start an argument. Yep. I'm taking the, oh, I'm taking the 308. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (00:47:33):
There's a reason it's been around this long.

Hunter Brooks (00:47:34):
Correct. It is. Yes. And, and, you know, even, even military history during and after pandemic, you know, hit and ammo shortages really start down. Trump 308 is held strong. And you can tell because there's manufacturers that's, that's, that's kind of what they're making first. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:47:53):
That's their money

Hunter Brooks (00:47:53):
Maker. Uh, that's, that's the money maker. And, you know, hey, selection variety. It's, it's good. It kind of meets all that criteria and then, so

Andrew Napier (00:48:02):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's a, it's a short action. Yeah. 30 odd sex. It is. So if you

Hunter Brooks (00:48:07):
Yeah. For all the,

Andrew Napier (00:48:08):
Those that don't know you about 36. Yeah. If it's a short action 30.

Hunter Brooks (00:48:11):
This is, this is a short package, 30 out six. And and Ballistically will do everything. The odd six does.

Andrew Napier (00:48:16):
Yes. And a non-honor mention is the six five brother A 30 tc. Yeah. Which was the original design was to make a short action three 30 odd six. Yeah. Which already existed in the 308. Yep. And 30 TC never took off. Yep. So they said, let's just make it a little smaller and make it a little faster. And now it's probably the hottest caliber in the industry. Probably. So they did write with the creedmore. I'm not a 30 TC fan. Yeah. It's cool. But it already exists. 308 already does it. Uh, this is a good hit to head right here.

Hunter Brooks (00:48:46):
It is. It's a great matchup. But for, for the purpose of what we're talking about mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the 308 advances. Yeah. 308

Andrew Napier (00:48:54):
Absolutely. Was on to the next round.

Hunter Brooks (00:48:56):
So now we have the final matchup. Yep. Um, we talked about this. We thought this could be a, the scenario. Oh yeah.

Garren Meyers (00:49:02):
It's been a long road. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:49:03):
<laugh>

Hunter Brooks (00:49:04):
Two number ones. The two number ones made it 308 versus two 70. And

Andrew Napier (00:49:09):
This, the, the list was pretty unbiased cuz I don't own a two 70 or a 308. Yeah. Garron owns every rifle ever. Well,

Hunter Brooks (00:49:16):
If you think about it too, Hunter,

Andrew Napier (00:49:17):
You got six, eight calibers. If you,

Hunter Brooks (00:49:18):
If you, well, if you take either of those calibers in that same bracket mm-hmm. <affirmative> against any of those other ones, I'm still taking it. I think they still come out on top. Yes. A two 70 instead of facing a 2 64. In comparison, if you've, you know, if it faces a 25 aught six, I'm still taking, I still take it. Yes. If it faces a seven mag still take it. It still goes. I'm writing. So there's no doubt, I think that these two calibers coming out, um, you know, out of both sides in short action and long action is, is, there's no question. These are the two best calibers.

Andrew Napier (00:49:49):
Correct. I think it's the, uh, I still think it's the sweet spot. I still think we did 'em

Hunter Brooks (00:49:52):
Both. Right. And anybody that wants to argue with us about that, you're welcome to come on the podcast. We're open and Absolutely.

Andrew Napier (00:49:57):
And we're open nine to seven during the week. Yeah. Eight to six. Saturday. Nine to five. Sunday come in, buy both. Prove

Hunter Brooks (00:50:02):
Me wrong.

Garren Meyers (00:50:02):
1 0 1 5 Lake Ridge.

Hunter Brooks (00:50:04):
Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:50:04):
Come in. Buy both. Prove me wrong.

Hunter Brooks (00:50:07):
So, uh, so who wins The, uh, who wins this one here in takes in

Andrew Napier (00:50:10):
A short, in a, in a debate or a short answer?

Hunter Brooks (00:50:12):
In a short answer.

Andrew Napier (00:50:13):
Two 70

Hunter Brooks (00:50:14):
Garron 308

Andrew Napier (00:50:16):
<laugh>. So today he's on you now.

Hunter Brooks (00:50:18):
Wow. So it's on, it's really on me. Yes.

Andrew Napier (00:50:21):
My reasoning for that is because it's a Virginia caliber. It's, from what I hear, it's from what I see, it's from what I sell. Most of my sales are 308, medium to short range hunting slash medium to long-range shooting. Yep. I just see more two 70 deer rifles going out the door with the same amount of smiles coming back in the door. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:50:44):
We get into popularity on this then. I I definitely agree. The two 70 is more popular

Andrew Napier (00:50:51):
In this area. Now you go in this area, now you go west of the Blue Ridge. I might have a different argument for 308. Sure. It's gonna have a little more punch.

Hunter Brooks (00:50:57):
Yep.

Andrew Napier (00:50:58):
But at least in the Tide water area, at least where we're at two 70, put up a hell of a fight. It does hell of a fight. It

Hunter Brooks (00:51:05):
Does. Um, man, I, I have to vote on this to make, make the decision. Dona, you,

Garren Meyers (00:51:11):
You could even have the argument here. I

Hunter Brooks (00:51:13):
Don't think so. There's no, there's no thinking, there's no wrong answer. There's, there's no wrong answer. So

Garren Meyers (00:51:17):
This is the first time we've had the long action short action match up Head, head, head. Exactly. So obviously it was gonna be in the championship round. But that being said, you know, you guys, you, you just have guys out there that would prefer one of over the other Yeah.

Andrew Napier (00:51:27):
And that's, some people like long action over short action. Yeah, sure.

Hunter Brooks (00:51:30):
Um, now it's trade

Andrew Napier (00:51:31):
Recoil now and the size of the, the bullet. Sure. So if you, you go back to the bullet size in a recoil,

Hunter Brooks (00:51:36):
You can, this, this could go back and forth for quite some time. Yep. Um, I'm a 308 guy. You guys know that? I like that 30 caliber, um, out of the two. That's, that's my choice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> personally. But I still think the two 70 is the winner because it is the, the popularity is there. Yeah. Um, the ammo, uh, selection is there. The, the rifles are there. Uh, and the history is there for hunting now for military use. The 308 is, is definitely there for that. Sure. Um, so I've gotta go two 70. Um, even though, man, I mean, that's tough. I know. I'm

Garren Meyers (00:52:15):
Gonna step on

Andrew Napier (00:52:15):
For a minute. And I know that was a, that was a 60 40 decision. I know that was close, close, maybe really close. 5 45 that was close for you. I

Hunter Brooks (00:52:22):
Mean this, that, that matchup was, that's,

Andrew Napier (00:52:25):
Uh, that's

Hunter Brooks (00:52:26):
Hard. That's tough. You know, because you got a lot of things going for both.

Andrew Napier (00:52:30):
Yeah. And

Hunter Brooks (00:52:31):
These are, and you know what,

Andrew Napier (00:52:32):
These were blank drafts when we started. We're not ready off a chart. We're filling 'em in and we're moving

Hunter Brooks (00:52:36):
Along and we're, we are

Andrew Napier (00:52:37):
That good when I got a laptop pulled up. I'm, I'm looking We're that good here?

Hunter Brooks (00:52:40):
We we're that

Andrew Napier (00:52:41):
Good. I'm trying to do minor research on what you can get and, and, and what calibers people like over other calibers. But two 70 just takes the cake and, you know, an Ohio deer caliber might be a different story. Uh, Montana deer deer caliber might be a different story. Texas deer caliber might be a different story. But if we're going Virginia sub 300 yards, I'm taking

Garren Meyers (00:53:01):
The two. I mean, you're talking a big buck. 170 pounds in Virginia.

Hunter Brooks (00:53:05):
In Virginia. Yeah. I mean

Andrew Napier (00:53:05):
The, the freaks are, are one 90 to two 10. Right? Yeah. That's the freaks where, you know, some Ohio deer, they're shooting doze. 190 pounds. Yep. Just different deer. Different game. But where we're at, I'm taking the two 70 all the way. And

Hunter Brooks (00:53:18):
That's got that flex man. Yeah. Flex was

Andrew Napier (00:53:20):
Hard, man. That was my, that was my vote, you know, three, four weeks ago when we talked about doing this. What's the best Virginia Count two 70. And you walk around the store. Yes. 10 people probably six, seven or more will tell you two 70.

Garren Meyers (00:53:31):
Yeah. How much did Mike Patello pay you for that answer? Zero.

Andrew Napier (00:53:33):
<laugh>. Zero. But Bill Erkin told me two 70.

Hunter Brooks (00:53:36):
And that's all I needed to hear. So now we've narrowed it down to these two. Let's talk about, um, let's talk about what's available for those mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, and just in, just as far as ammo loaded, factory ammunition, which we're in the golden age of ammo, by the way. Yes. Um, a lot of people do not feel the need to, um, to reload because factory ammo shoots so well and they're right. I guess. I mean, the factory ammo is, is excellent out there.

Andrew Napier (00:54:03):
Ricky's calling me right now. He probably, he can feel his ears better

Hunter Brooks (00:54:06):
About

Andrew Napier (00:54:06):
The caliber. We didn't, you're probably right that we didn't put a 300 Norma or a six seven an STW or six B R X or

Hunter Brooks (00:54:13):
Well, they, they have a special tournament for that, you know. Yeah. Special bracket for, for those Wildcats. And there

Andrew Napier (00:54:19):
Could be an honorable mention bracket.

Garren Meyers (00:54:21):
That's the loser's bracket.

Andrew Napier (00:54:22):
But it's, you're starting off in the los, how can you win the loser's true bracket.

Hunter Brooks (00:54:25):
True. Exactly. You start off in the loser's bracket, that's pretty bad.

Andrew Napier (00:54:29):
Yeah. Seven short mag is not gonna double dip the two 70. It's

Hunter Brooks (00:54:32):
Not gonna happen. I'm sorry, I wouldn't even invite a short mag.

Andrew Napier (00:54:35):
No short mags are out.

Hunter Brooks (00:54:36):
You know, I feel about short mags

Andrew Napier (00:54:38):
Out and you shoot something that's debatable Wildcat. It's a factory caliber, but it's an

Hunter Brooks (00:54:42):
Oddball. It is. It is. And you know, I, you know, I need that the 300

Andrew Napier (00:54:46):
Rum kicks ass man, that's always caliber.

Hunter Brooks (00:54:48):
It, it's, uh, worldwide.

Andrew Napier (00:54:49):
Worldwide. You're taking one to Africa, you're taking one to Russia, you're taking one to Canada. Yeah. 300 rum pretty much takes it.

Hunter Brooks (00:54:55):
It will take out just about anything. Yes. If you

Garren Meyers (00:54:57):
Wanna blow a hole in elephant's ass That's right. Run will

Andrew Napier (00:55:01):
Do it. And my preference would be something faster, something hotter and something smaller. Like, uh, and I'm getting a rifle built. It's a seven millimeter stw. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is a hotter seven mag. It's just a little faster. It's a belted case. It's a long, long case with a relatively small bullet, but it keeps all the speed hitch really hard. Yep. You're trading a little speed for an extra punch. Right. And, uh, what do you, what do you like over there? You're 2 64. 2 60 64.

Garren Meyers (00:55:27):
Man,

Hunter Brooks (00:55:27):
I thought he was gonna say 30, 30 man

Garren Meyers (00:55:29):
<laugh>.

Hunter Brooks (00:55:29):
I'm taking

Andrew Napier (00:55:30):
The 30

Garren Meyers (00:55:30):
30 off rest in peace. 30 30 man. All the

Andrew Napier (00:55:32):
Way to South Africa.

Garren Meyers (00:55:33):
Yeah. I got that eight mag in the cabinet ready to go. Hey Mag man,

Andrew Napier (00:55:35):
You want to crush something? Shoot a eight Mag <laugh>.

Hunter Brooks (00:55:37):
That's right. You got an eight, eight mag kills

Garren Meyers (00:55:39):
On both ends, man.

Hunter Brooks (00:55:40):
It does, man. Yeah. Oof.

Andrew Napier (00:55:42):
Ah, oh, that's a pass

Garren Meyers (00:55:43):
For me. Got the scars to prove it. <laugh>. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (00:55:45):
<laugh> <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (00:55:46):
But yeah, look at the last two calibers in 308 and two 70. You can you get anything you want? Yeah. Factory loaded and you can get 'em at about a dollar a shot with some really good bullets. Federal blue box, the horny whitetail. So let's

Hunter Brooks (00:55:59):
Talk about the bottom. Alright, let's talk about, so Federal. Federal and Remington. Federal and, uh, horny. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I'd say that you're seeing the most of, the, most of the ammo coming from them. Most selections coming from them. Winchester does

Andrew Napier (00:56:12):
A good job. They'd be a number

Hunter Brooks (00:56:13):
Three and, and, and Winchester's right there with 'em. Yep. But as far as, uh, getting stuff out, I would, I've been seeing a lot more horny to

Andrew Napier (00:56:20):
Through the last two years. Horny has kept

Hunter Brooks (00:56:22):
It rocking. Yes. And Federal does a great job. Yep. There. Absolutely. And you know, there's a blue box federal mm-hmm. <affirmative> that it's a power shock. It's, it's a power shock bullet. It's a soft point. And I will say that that is for the money. It's some of the best ammo you can buy out there. And just

Andrew Napier (00:56:39):
The good old boys will say the killing this bullet, they

Hunter Brooks (00:56:41):
Will because, and believe it or not, it shoots extremely well, very

Andrew Napier (00:56:44):
Accurate. And almost every caliber. It's extremely

Hunter Brooks (00:56:46):
Accurate. Yeah. And I think generally it's runs 20 to $22 a box. Yep. About a dollar or shot. And I don't think that has changed much even recently with the, you know, it

Andrew Napier (00:56:55):
Might have been 18 a box three years ago. Right. But it's still flirting around 21, 22.

Hunter Brooks (00:57:01):
So if, if, if you're out there, you're looking for ammo this year and good ammo and you want good ammo and, and you have to try something different because what you're normally shoot is not available. Sure. Give that a try. Just above that is, uh, fusion Federal. Does

Andrew Napier (00:57:15):
Fusion Federal go back to the, to the cheaper ammo or the cheaper stuff? Federal budget ammo that horny.

Hunter Brooks (00:57:19):
The

Andrew Napier (00:57:19):
Horny whitetail. It's a red, white, and blue box.

Hunter Brooks (00:57:22):
American white tail. American white tail. That's an awesome bullet. It kind of sits in the same category as that blue box federal. The

Andrew Napier (00:57:26):
Price is right. The performance is right. And if you're looking sub 300 yards, you do not need a one hole group and it can still shoot a one hole. Oh

Hunter Brooks (00:57:35):
Sure. Sure.

Andrew Napier (00:57:35):
But you're looking at budget ammo. You're gonna buy a box, you gonna buy a budget gun, budget scope, bang, bang, bang. Yep. Five shots. You're cited in 10 shots, maybe to stretch it a little bit. Yep. And you are ready to rock.

Hunter Brooks (00:57:45):
And if you'll notice, if you'll notice the ca the only calibers that they offer that rifle ammo in are two 70 mm-hmm. <affirmative> 30 out 6 308 6 5 creed more. Yep. Probably 2 25 6 and 2 43. So very generic caliber. Your very small family of popular calibers. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is all they offer that in. So another reason to probably stick to one of those. Correct.

Andrew Napier (00:58:07):
Another reason to stick to those core calibers. Yes.

Hunter Brooks (00:58:09):
Yep. Um, step up above that is, uh, federal does the fusion. Federal's

Andrew Napier (00:58:14):
Fusion.

Hunter Brooks (00:58:14):
Yeah. Phenomenally awesome. Great ammo. Awesome. The bullet itself, if you don't know what it is, the, the, the core is, is fused to the jacket from what I understand. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you get a lot of weight retention on the bullet, which is important. Correct. You know, not, you know, people think, well, it's not that important. You're just shooting a whitetail, but you're trading

Andrew Napier (00:58:30):
A little expansion for a lot of penetration. Yeah. You're going hit 'em really hard. Yeah. Yes.

Hunter Brooks (00:58:35):
Yep. So same

Andrew Napier (00:58:35):
With the Remington, uh, colo

Hunter Brooks (00:58:37):
Colos, same way. Colos

Andrew Napier (00:58:38):
Not known for being one hole accurate, but, but they

Hunter Brooks (00:58:40):
Crush. They will crush. That's all I shoot

Andrew Napier (00:58:42):
Outta my odd six. And, and a lot of guns

Hunter Brooks (00:58:44):
Love them.

Andrew Napier (00:58:44):
<laugh>

Various (00:58:45):
Your eight. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

Andrew Napier (00:58:47):
A lot of guns like that. Remington, klock, a lot of guns don't. A lot of guns like it. Carlock and, um, horny Super performance. Super

Hunter Brooks (00:58:55):
Performance. Performance man.

Andrew Napier (00:58:56):
Yeah. And, uh, that's a real good bullet. And you're compliable, which

Hunter Brooks (00:58:58):
It used to be called their, was it their interlock? Interlock, yep. That used to be called interlock. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But now it's, uh, I don't know what it's called.

Andrew Napier (00:59:03):
I think the box is branded. Um, super performance. But I think your bullet's still

Hunter Brooks (00:59:07):
Called it interlock. It's still an interlock bullet. Yeah. Yep. And the same, same concept. Yeah. Uh, a bonded type. A lot of bonded, bonded bullets that offer thats better weight retention. Yeah. And sst SST is a tip bullet, which we get into ballistic tips. When you get up to, in that 30 to $36 a box price range is start when you're getting into a, going over dollar

Andrew Napier (00:59:25):
Bullet 50 a shot, you start

Hunter Brooks (00:59:26):
Getting all different bullets. So you get knowledge or ballistic tips. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you got a lot of those. You know, you've got the federal that usually gene generic, you know, generally they usually a lot of ballistic tips. Yep. Uh, then you got your sssts by horny, uh, Winchester does their ballistic silver tips. Your,

Andrew Napier (00:59:41):
Your ELDs

Hunter Brooks (00:59:42):
And then you have the and the horny. Yep. ELDs and horny. And

Andrew Napier (00:59:45):
Uh, a lot of them, uh, federal does a lot of nozzle partition. Yep. Yeah. And nozzle loads a lot of accu bullets. Yeah. In both these calibers or all the calibers.

Hunter Brooks (00:59:51):
Well, since we're on the topic of ammo, uh, whitetailed deer in Virginia, what kind of bullet do you guys go after

Andrew Napier (00:59:59):
For the two 70?

Hunter Brooks (01:00:02):
Oh, in general, let's just say Yes.

Andrew Napier (01:00:03):
2 70, 70. I'm taking 150 grand federal blue box.

Hunter Brooks (01:00:07):
Okay. To the bank. So you're doing, doing a software or,

Andrew Napier (01:00:10):
Or the federal fusion or

Hunter Brooks (01:00:11):
The Fusion

Andrew Napier (01:00:12):
Fusion one 40.

Garren Meyers (01:00:13):
So I have 2, 2 70 s. And I guess a, a lot of that comes down to what shot the best outta my rifles. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but the core lock two seventy, a hundred thirty grand bullet is very nasty on a whitetail.

Hunter Brooks (01:00:27):
So that's two soft points. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm going soft point too. I would probably do the same. I'd stick with like a fusion bullet or maybe a core lock. If I had to shoot the blue box, I would, without question you more than, and I would

Andrew Napier (01:00:39):
Start with that. Cause your, your new guns are gonna have, uh, eight to 20 round break in depending on who you talk to, depending on how you break your gun in. Sure. If you just wanna go out and waste five, get the barrel hot, that'll help you a ton. Yeah. But your first shot is not gonna be where your second shot is. Yeah. With a brand new scope. So you need to kind of get set up. I'm gonna take the blue box cuz they're cheaper and I'm gonna cite it in with them. And if it keeps getting closer and closer, I'm just gonna stay with it. Yeah. I once get that. If I don't like it, then I may move up to the fusion or a, um, e ldx horny bullet. I do like the E L D, the match and the ex bolts. Sure.

(01:01:13):
They're, they're really good bullets. They load really well. You get a lot of good, uh, speed variance with 'em. You can load 'em hot and load 'em slow. Uh, they are usually a little lighter if you were look at like a seven mag, they're heavy bullets. A 1 72 and they do three, I think they have 1 50, 1 62 and one 70 or 1 72 where you can load a seven mag up to about one 90 where, you know, burger does a 180 s 180 4. So you can, they're slightly lighter. I think they're E L D X and a creedmore is a 1 43. Yep. And the matche is a 1 47. So it's, you're shaving a couple out couple grains, the deer's not gonna a difference. No. And uh, a lot of people argue that the match bullet shoots better and performs better than the

Hunter Brooks (01:01:55):
Oh, amax Amax is a good, uh, you know, a lot of people, you know, ask me, man, why are you shooting an AMAX bullet in a 300 ultra max? It goes right

Andrew Napier (01:02:02):
Where you want it to

Hunter Brooks (01:02:03):
Go. One, they, they shoot great. Correct. Two, I mean, I wouldn't want one coming to me. No, no. And I would trade, I mean it's, uh, it can, you can hunt with an a max bullet. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (01:02:13):
And any doubt you have in the performance, I would trade for the accuracy. Oh yeah.

Hunter Brooks (01:02:16):
If you're,

Andrew Napier (01:02:17):
Yeah. If your one 30 shoots great. And your one 30 shoots. Okay. When you think the one 30 hits harder to shoot the one 30, because the one 30 is gonna go where you point to cross airs. Yeah. That's the key to killing the deer put in the right spot.

Hunter Brooks (01:02:29):
Yeah. And I mean, and finding the right ammo for it, whether it's reloads or whatever is important. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, cleaning your rifle, yes or no. Whatever. That's a, that's like preference. That's a topic for an No, it's a touchy subject too. Very touchy subject. Yeah. Very touchable. Um, but you

Garren Meyers (01:02:43):
Should absolutely clean your rifle

Andrew Napier (01:02:45):
<laugh>. I'm, I'm, I'm anti cleaning your rifle. I like have about a four to five shot, uh, worth of dirt.

Hunter Brooks (01:02:51):
Yeah. Rifle. And to some, I mean, I know some guys that have never cleaned their rifle and they get better and better and better and it gets better. It it's just, uh, it's like a cast iron. Exactly. Fry pan. Cast irons

Andrew Napier (01:03:02):
Skillet. Yes. My granddad never cleaned his, he swore him down the, when you cleaned it, you had to waste a box getting it dirty again to get him back. Get it back on paper. And that's old school. That's old guys and his old school. It is, it's a different story.

Hunter Brooks (01:03:13):
Whole other podcast. He was a

Andrew Napier (01:03:15):
2 43 man. Yeah. So that's, you know, I'm sorry, <laugh> feelings are hurting. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (01:03:20):
Well, you know, we're sorry we're that we're not sorry for hurting anybody's feelings on this. Uh Correct.

Andrew Napier (01:03:25):
Anything on this paper. Especially the core eight. Yeah. That 308 65 PRC 2 43 65 creedmore 2 7300 Win Mag 25 and 30 out six. That is all eight of those are no-brainers. Yeah. You show up to Deer Camp or your club or first day on in season with any of those eight, you'll do just fine. You'll be fine.

Garren Meyers (01:03:43):
Have confidence in any of those.

Andrew Napier (01:03:43):
Yeah, I got plenty confidence in that. Honorable mentions 6 5 55 Swiss. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (01:03:48):
30,

Garren Meyers (01:03:48):
40. Craig

Andrew Napier (01:03:49):
<laugh>. 30 40. Craig did not make the

Hunter Brooks (01:03:51):
List on who is this guy? Hey man, he's, he's, he's got this thing for

Andrew Napier (01:03:55):
This. Him and Craig might have something worked out.

Hunter Brooks (01:03:57):
<laugh>,

Garren Meyers (01:03:57):
Me and Craig

Hunter Brooks (01:03:58):
Go way back. 2 57 Roberts,

Andrew Napier (01:03:59):
2 57 Roberts and 2 57 Weatherby.

Hunter Brooks (01:04:02):
2 57 Weatherby. I'm not a

Andrew Napier (01:04:03):
Huge Weatherbee fan. Yeah. A lot of people are. Anything Weatherby makes edge recoil and edge price. It does. And there's another caliber that already exists in this Core eight that does what the Weatherby calibers do. Yeah, absolutely. Other than the big dog stuff. Yeah. A real big 300 weather being bigger. Uh, everything on this list is covered inside of Weatherby caliber. Yeah. Um, short mags out. Yeah. Not for me. Uh, seven s t w n 300 rum in,

Hunter Brooks (01:04:30):
Uh, yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Napier (01:04:31):
You know, then there's all kinds of oddballs. 300 Norma, um, what's it, what's that bullet that guy talks about the vaporizer? It's a norma neck with a uh, oh yeah. 14 twists, you know, shoot 4,000 feet per second. Yeah. There's all kinds of crazy

Hunter Brooks (01:04:44):
Stuff out. Oh, it's all kinds of Yeah. There's so many calibers out there that, you know, people will tell you, oh, that's, that's the greatest thing I'm telling you need one. I'm thinking what,

Andrew Napier (01:04:54):
Go back, what

Hunter Brooks (01:04:54):
The guys say. I can't even pronounce it now. Exactly. What are you talking about?

Andrew Napier (01:04:57):
Yeah. Who's Chi Tech? Yeah,

Hunter Brooks (01:04:58):
<laugh>.

Andrew Napier (01:04:59):
Yeah. You go back to the, I barely know who Creedmore is,

Hunter Brooks (01:05:02):
Right?

Garren Meyers (01:05:03):
Yeah. What was the one that Taylor's dad shot all the time?

Andrew Napier (01:05:06):
Boo boo 30 Boo boo

Hunter Brooks (01:05:07):
Boo boo boo booo. Yeah. Kinda like the eroni. Exactly.

Andrew Napier (01:05:10):
They're like, uh, 3, 308 warbirds. Right. You know, it, it's all if you want it, it's already out there. Yeah. And, and you probably can't afford it or you can't buy it on the shelf. Yeah. It's all kinds of weird stuff once, uh, and there's uh, there's just great calibers out there.

Garren Meyers (01:05:24):
Yeah. 33 50 legends starting to take off for all the three 50 legend doing

Hunter Brooks (01:05:28):
Cartridges finally taken off. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (01:05:29):
There's some, there's some straight wall, uh, states. I

Hunter Brooks (01:05:31):
Know we straight wall's thought about bringing that into this, but, uh, it, it just wasn't quite there. It's on

Andrew Napier (01:05:36):
The list. It's 300 blackout should be on this list somewhere because it's so universal. Sub 200 yards. Yes. And it suppresses so well if we did another one on youth rifles and compact rifles, 300

Hunter Brooks (01:05:48):
Black, 300 blackout. Yeah. I mean, even if, and it depends on the situation. And that's another caliber that I own myself that I would love to take out if I'm, if I'm hunting a real thick area, if I'm up in a tree stand Yeah. And I'm not hunting, just hunting a trail or something like that. You wanna

Andrew Napier (01:06:02):
Take your mark 18 or your PW hunting

Hunter Brooks (01:06:04):
With it. Yeah. I'm gonna take it suppressed or you know, if I'm hunting, you know, the backyard or something like that, whatever. And I

Andrew Napier (01:06:10):
Think you'd have 200 yards success with the 300 blackout with the 1 25 bull. Sure. Absolutely. You might have probably Crest 300, but I I really think you're pledging it. Yeah,

Hunter Brooks (01:06:18):
You're right.

Garren Meyers (01:06:18):
Yeah. From a hunting standpoint though, when you get into those close quarters, um, to get away from a rifle and, and get a slug gun, I think would almost do you better.

Andrew Napier (01:06:26):
You're you're walking the line of a slug

Hunter Brooks (01:06:27):
Gun. Exactly. Yeah. Another honorable mention we didn't have on list was, believe it or not, this six point eights SPC

Andrew Napier (01:06:32):
Six eight, SPC 68

Hunter Brooks (01:06:34):
Is another fairy underrated caliber. Yes. Developed by the military, sir. From what I remember. Yep. And it was designed specifically for military use, but it has become a popular rifle caliber

Andrew Napier (01:06:46):
And the blackout kind of pushed it aside. Yeah. And the six five grindle pushed it aside.

Hunter Brooks (01:06:50):
Exactly.

Andrew Napier (01:06:50):
Cause the six five, you just have a little bit better

Hunter Brooks (01:06:52):
Low.

Andrew Napier (01:06:53):
Yeah. Um, 76 2 39 gets an honorable

Hunter Brooks (01:06:56):
Mention. It does

Andrew Napier (01:06:56):
Because that's a whole lot of stuff has died from 7 6 2 39. Yeah. Uh, yeah. They look really awesome. And the Ruger American rifles, they look awesome in a cz.

Hunter Brooks (01:07:06):
Right. Cz makes them be. Yep. CZI makes it a beautiful rifle. You want a

Andrew Napier (01:07:09):
Hunt with your AK or your sks two inexpensive guns that are fun to shoot and uh, you know, a 1 29 or 1 39 7 6 twos will cross you. Oh yeah. He's still

Garren Meyers (01:07:19):
Steal hundred by day, steal by night. Steal. Exactly.

Andrew Napier (01:07:22):
Steel cord just blitz a hole right through today. That's right. Uh, it would cross him. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (01:07:26):
That's for your man. Drive days.

Andrew Napier (01:07:28):
Yeah. Yeah. That's for the uh, uh, the cutover days. That's right. We're just leaning on the truck. Just

Hunter Brooks (01:07:32):
That's right. Cutting them

Andrew Napier (01:07:33):
Down <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Another shout out to the Western Hanover. B a r boys. Mm.

Hunter Brooks (01:07:39):
Oh yeah.

Andrew Napier (01:07:40):
A lot of them are seven Mag two 70. A lot of those are short mag guys too. If

Garren Meyers (01:07:44):
Dana Brown and I don't want it. That's

Andrew Napier (01:07:45):
Right. What's that saying? If it triggers gold, a deer will fold. Oh,

Hunter Brooks (01:07:49):
Hold on. I haven't heard that one. Oh yeah,

Andrew Napier (01:07:51):
You, you, you hang out in Mont Peel a little more

Hunter Brooks (01:07:53):
Often, man. Well, I don't live far from there.

Garren Meyers (01:07:54):
<laugh> live my life by

Andrew Napier (01:07:55):
That. That's right. Mm. Uh, yeah, it's the short mag doesn't do it for me, but, uh, I'm, I'm happy with the two 70 results. I know my dad would be

Hunter Brooks (01:08:03):
Happy. I mean, you know, Garren's still over there wiping his tears.

Andrew Napier (01:08:08):
Uh, his 2 64 tears. Yeah. <laugh>.

Garren Meyers (01:08:10):
It's a good thing. Uh, it's a good thing. It's just audio. We lost. I'm

Hunter Brooks (01:08:13):
Embarrassed we lost him in round. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got push on both sides. The 30 on sides. He hit him very hard too. So Yeah, he's out. <laugh>

Andrew Napier (01:08:21):
30, 30 fought hard to get in the Army.

Garren Meyers (01:08:22):
Okay. We even came up with this man, <laugh>,

Hunter Brooks (01:08:24):
<laugh> <laugh>.

Andrew Napier (01:08:27):
There's lists.

Hunter Brooks (01:08:29):
Oh, man. Well, that, you know, hey, there were, you know, it was, it was tough coming up with these, but um, yeah, luckily these, um, these calibers have no emotions. No, we didn't. Correct. We didn't hurt any feelings. Nobody's gonna know the difference except Garren's other

Andrew Napier (01:08:43):
Than Garren, I think everyone else will survive. Yeah.

Hunter Brooks (01:08:46):
I think, but I think, I think I'm

Garren Meyers (01:08:47):
Taking my 30 30 and I'm going home. <laugh>,

Hunter Brooks (01:08:49):
You

Andrew Napier (01:08:50):
Gotta shoot that 2 64 win egg with it. <laugh>

Hunter Brooks (01:08:53):
<laugh>. Yeah. Get the one, uh, which one of the ones on the rack? You gonna pick out the, one of the ones that people traded in for their, uh, 308 and two 70.

Andrew Napier (01:09:00):
Yeah. Trade it in on that two 70. Burger

Hunter Brooks (01:09:01):
American

Garren Meyers (01:09:02):
Got a hell of a deal,

Hunter Brooks (01:09:02):
Man. Absolut. That's right. Absolutely. The one on the clearance. Shit,

Andrew Napier (01:09:05):
You start looking at rifles, like you've already mentioned before, you get anything, you want any of these core calibers. Right. Um, but there's some, there's some inexpensive rifles that shoot inexpensive ammo very well. Yes. Yeah. Ruger, uh, Ruger American, the Savage one 10 and the access series Tikas, you know, right around $600 Perue, you're starting seven, $800. There's some serious rifles out there that are extremely accurate. One hole guarantee or not one hole, one inch guarantee with any caliber. Yep. So you don't have, shouldn't have any fear of is this rifle gonna shoot or is

Hunter Brooks (01:09:37):
This caliber gonna shoot? And and that's one thing I think people that are, that have never purchased a bolt action rifle before is, or they haven't shot one, is, um, they, they worry about the accuracy on it. Let me tell you, if you get the, any rifle out there is gonna shoot. Yeah. If you combine that with good mounts, good optics. Yep. Uh, you know, and any of these calibers. And then the next thing is, hey, you gotta spend

Garren Meyers (01:10:06):
The

Hunter Brooks (01:10:06):
Time. You gotta spend the time. You gotta, you gotta break the rifle in. You gotta get to know that rifle. You got to shoot that rifle enough to where you have a confidence level that, you know, every time you squeeze that trigger that it's, it's, it's on, you

Andrew Napier (01:10:20):
Gotta have command over the trigger pull. Yes. You gotta what the old timers, you say watch the bullet hit, you gotta be able to shoot through the scope, shoot through the recoil. Yes. And, and have some realistic expectations. Don't come in here with $700. Say I wanna shoot, I wanna haunt out 500 yards. Right. Well, if you got a $600 gun, I mean, you can put a toilet paper holder up there and that can be your optic. Right. You need to put some of the emphasis in the optic and the trigger weight and the trigger pull and your trigger control to get past that 2 5300 yard mark. You gotta know how to shoot that far. Yes. And it's hard. It's very hard.

Garren Meyers (01:10:51):
You know, I think one good thing, um, as far as rifles are concerned is there's more counties, uh, in our area that are going to rifle hunting now. Yeah. I'm starting to open up. Um, but you know, there's still some, some counties out there that are, that don't allow it. Um, but talking about slug guns too, man, they, it's almost like shooting a rifle now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And if you spend time with those, I mean, you can still get, you know, if, if you can't hunt with a rifle, if you can't legally hunt with a two 70, uh, in your county, you still have that option of hunting with a 20 gauge, just

Hunter Brooks (01:11:16):
Do it anyway. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (01:11:17):
Just exactly. Just kidding. Get in the truck and roll,

Andrew Napier (01:11:19):
Man. That's what the boys are doing. Just doing it anyways. Uh, yeah. Slug gun crosses a deer.

Hunter Brooks (01:11:24):
It does.

Andrew Napier (01:11:25):
Yeah. 260, 300 grain bullet and a 20 gauge mild recoil, uh, shoots like a muzz or don't have to clean it. Yep. And, and it'll hammer there, crack down 200 yards. Yes, it will. You know, and you still gotta play with those too. You gotta have the truth Spend the time control. You gotta be able to shoot it. Gotta have realistic expectations

Hunter Brooks (01:11:41):
Too. Yep.

Garren Meyers (01:11:41):
How many, how many access to rifles have you sold? You know, in these calibers that a billion, I mean, you know, under $500 rifle sometimes with a scope. Correct. Yeah.

Andrew Napier (01:11:49):
You set your whole package up five, 600 bucks and, and do everything you want to do that. We've talked about 300 yards an N.

Hunter Brooks (01:11:55):
Yep.

Andrew Napier (01:11:57):
I think we nailed it, man. Two, we did 72 70 for the win.

Hunter Brooks (01:12:01):
Mad props goes to the two 70 Winchester. Yes.

Andrew Napier (01:12:04):
And the 308 is a to, it

Hunter Brooks (01:12:06):
Was 308 was, uh, it was tight. It a tough one. It was a tough one. Yeah. Um, very tough. It's kind of hard to disagree with that. And, um, yeah, two 70 walks away with, uh, the crown. Oh,

Andrew Napier (01:12:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Un the undisputed champ. Yes. <laugh>

Hunter Brooks (01:12:21):
In the Commonwealth.

Andrew Napier (01:12:22):
Yeah. <laugh> in the Commonwealth. Yeah. We're going for the Commonwealth caliber. Well,

Hunter Brooks (01:12:26):
Thanks for doing this today, guys. Yeah, man. This is fun. Absolutely. If anybody, uh, disagrees with us. Well, sorry.

Garren Meyers (01:12:33):
1 0 1 5 Lake Ridge <laugh>.

Hunter Brooks (01:12:34):
Yeah. Come

Andrew Napier (01:12:35):
Here. I'm telling you, buy two calibers. Prove me wrong.

Hunter Brooks (01:12:37):
Yeah, no, good. Good episode. Uh, thanks for being here, guys. Uh, I thought this was a good idea. Yeah. Uh, we talked about it and talked about it and I said, well, let's just, let's just press record and do it. Do. Yeah. So that's what we did do.

Andrew Napier (01:12:49):
We talked too much. We'll ruin all the good ideas.

Hunter Brooks (01:12:50):
I know, right. Sit down and record it all. Well, hey, thanks for listening to everybody. Uh, hope you tune in next time. Thanks a lot.

Narrator (01:12:58):
Thanks for listening to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast, hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle like, and subscribe to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more about greentop at greentophuntfish.com.