5.56 and .223- What is the difference?

Hunter is joined by Justin Boyd, Garren Meyers, and Zach Schebish to discuss the popular question, what is the difference between 5.56 and .223?

No difference, big difference, or slight difference, it is all discussed in this podcast. Even if you know there is a difference but can’t explain why, tune in and find out!

Another hot topic discussed is the availability of this ammo and why the price has not decreased in recent months.

Narrator (00:02):
Hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. Welcome to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast with your host, Hunter Brooks.

Hunter (00:13):
All right. Welcome to another episode of the Greentop Outdoors Podcast. I have three guests with me today, and I'm gonna introduce each and every one of 'em. But first, we're gonna talk about the topic. We're talking 5.56 versus .223 today. First, Justin Boyd was joining us. Justin, how are you? I'm doing well, hunter. How are you? Good, man. We've be, you've been on before. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you and Robbie Sure have. Um, good to be back. Yeah, good to have you back. And, uh, Zach, Zach Schebish first time on the podcast, right, Zach?

Zach Schebish (00:42):
Yeah. First time.

Hunter (00:43):
First time. And, uh, Garren. Garren, you've been on this before.

Garren Meyers (00:47):
Oh, man. It's been a while, but it's good to be

Hunter (00:49):
Back. That's right. Yeah. Cause you've been, you've been away for a little while. You were, you, you were in school?

Garren Meyers (00:54):
Yeah, I was in, uh, I was actually in prison, but, uh, <laugh>, no, I was, uh, in the academy for a little while. Firefighter Academy, so, yeah. Back, uh, back in the saddle.

Hunter (01:02):
Nice. Yeah. We were, I think we actually joked about you. Uh, we were wondering at what stage of the academy you were at, at one point, were you, uh, at the part where you teach you how to play video games or the part where they learned how to cook? I couldn't figure out where, where you were.

Garren Meyers (01:16):
It's pretty early. Cause that's actually essential in firefighter development, <laugh>

Hunter (01:19):
Video games.

Garren Meyers (01:20):
Yeah. You, you gotta know how to do it.

Hunter (01:21):
Hand eye, hand-eye coordination. Yeah. <laugh>. All right. Well, look, we're getting into, let's get into what we're gonna talk about today, and that is, uh, a very common question we get, uh, Justin, Zach, Gary, y'all probably get it a lot too, is what is the, what the hell's the difference between .223 and 5.56? And it's not a dumb question because I don't like, I think, I think there's never a, there's no such thing as a dumb question in a gun store. Right. But I'd agree. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's a very common question and it's a very good question because yes, there is a difference, but there kind of isn't at the same time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, I guess if, um, the way we'll we'll look at it is Justin, if, uh, if you were 5.56 and Garin, you're .223 Yep. You could just kind of tell me a little bit about yourself and we can try to figure out what the main differences are. And then Zack Zack's a, Zack's a fan of, uh, go ahead, Zack. You tell, tell us what you're a fan of.

Zach Schebish (02:18):
Well, you know, I, I'm a fan of 5.56. It's done a lot of people a lot of good, but I also really like, uh, the Eastern European option of 5.45x39.

Hunter (02:27):
And it's, uh, it's, it's a very, uh, underrated cartridge.

Zach Schebish (02:31):
Well, I think the world is waking up really quick to, uh, 5.45 because, uh, when you turn on the news, both sides of the war is, uh, primarily using that caliber.

Hunter (02:42):
Right. Both. And, uh, we'll get into that too because, uh, you know, we're gonna talk about the cost on 5.56 and .223 and availability, which has been, it's been tough. It's as, as late. And, uh, there's a reason for that. And we'll get into that too. But, uh, first let's just talk about the, the 5.56 nato, uh, which was developed, uh, believe it or not, it was 20 or 20 or so years after the .223 was developed. Yep. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> by nato, so I think it went into, came in around 1980 or so mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what, uh, and it's primarily the, um, what most, uh, rifles are chambered in, in an AR 15 platform these days, right.

Justin Boyd (03:25):
Typically. Okay. Yeah. There's a, there's some other chamberings you see like .223 Wild, which is essentially a match 5.56 chambering. Um, your Daniel Defenses, FNs, you know, Smith and Wesson M&Ps, A lot of the rifles we sell here will be chambered in 5.56. Yep. And they can accommodate either cartridge. A .223 is fine to shoot in your 5.56 chamber all day long. Uh, I kind of look at the two as like if we were buying gas, right, .223 would be your 87 unlighted. Yeah. And 5.56 would be your 93 high octane stuff that you're gonna get the best performance.

Hunter (04:03):
That's a good way to put it. Yeah.

Justin Boyd (04:04):
Um, most guns are designed around 5.56 specifically when it comes to the gas port. So they're gonna run reliably with that the most consistently. Yep. That said, um, manufacturers take into account, the .223 is gonna be used as well. Yeah. So they'll size gas ports appropriately to be able to run that in conjunction.

Hunter (04:22):
Okay. So, and, and I think with the 5.56 chamber, is it, is it 0.125 inches longer, I believe? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> than a, than a .223 chamber?

Justin Boyd (04:31):
Yes. The lead is a little bit longer to accommodate more overall length than the cartridge. There's more powder packed behind the bullet, so it's gotta be able to do

Hunter (04:39):
That. So you, it's a higher pressure round. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then a .223 being a lower pressure round was, well, it was originally designed to be chambered in the M16, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, when, uh, what's his name? Was it Stoner? Eugene? Eugene Stoner. Stoner from, from Armalite designed, uh, made that design. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so along with 5.56 and .223, obviously there's a lots of bullet weights that you can go with, and that has really changed over the years. I mean, it used to just be, uh, I guess back then, well, 55 or 62 grain was basically it, but now you got stuff all the way up to mm-hmm. <affirmative> 77.

Justin Boyd (05:20):
Oh yeah. Um, I would say like NAM era leading up to Desert Storm 55 grain was predominantly what you'd see. Yeah. That's

Hunter (05:28):
What the .223 was made on, was a

Justin Boyd (05:30):
55 grain mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. Exactly. Right. And, uh, you know, 62 grain kind of took over after the fact is like the US military's default ball ammo. Yeah. Um, since then we've seen 77 grain variance 5.56. The, uh, I think the military designation is marked 262, so MK262, um, it's a 77 grain OTM precision round. You know,

Hunter (05:55):
The kind of, and OTM means open tip match. Open tip match. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yep. A lot of people ask that question too. Um, so switching gears going over to .223, you know, you're talking about a, uh, a caliber that was, um, predominantly popular for varmin hunters. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, you know, and it was a, it was big within the military, right? Uh, you know, of course before the .223 was the 762 by 51, which is who wants to, who wants to take that one?

Zach Schebish (06:27):
So I'll jump in there. Yeah. Cause uh, you know, we're talking about .223 versus 5.56, and how 5.56 is a higher pressure than .223. So on another caliber that has sees widespread military use along with hunting use, would be the comparison of 308 versus 762x51 nato. Yeah. Right. Except it's the opposite. Right? 762x51 is actually lower pressure than a 308. So for instance, I have a scar 17, so, and I run a scar 17 suppressed. So if I put a bunch of commercial grade hot hunting, 308 ammo, I'm gonna damage my gun. So, uh, you know, if you're shooting like a, if you're gun's chambered in seven 60x51, it's best to stick to that caliber because a lot of commercial eight, uh, 308 is gonna be too hot. Right. You can damage it on. Yeah.

Hunter (07:14):
So, uh, and it's kind of the, like you said, it's kind of the, the same thing except just, just opposite. Just opposite mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but going in the .223, you know, you've got a, um, uh, lower pressure chamber, which, um, I think it was, what's a, what's a .223, um, garrin? Is it, uh, uh, what was it, 55,000 psi?

Garren Meyers (07:40):
That sounds about right. Let's see here. Uh, maximum pressure is gonna be 55,000,

Hunter (07:45):
55,000. Where are, um, the 5.56 is at 58,000. So what, what's what could be catastrophic? Uh, and, and this is one of the, the don'ts is if you have a .223 chamber putting a 5.56 in that chamber, what really drives the pressure up, right. Which could damage the shooter, could damage the gun, could damage, you know, a lot of things. Um, that's why it's not recommended on doing it. Now, I'm sure people do it all the time, and I'm sure there's, there's not, there, there's no catastrophic, uh, issues with it. But the, it is highly recommended not to do that. Right. Um, but the, the, the .223 is, uh, just being the low pressure. I mean, you can, it's, it's, it's highly sought after as being a very reloadable caliber mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it's, it's very versatile. Uh, we'll get into the twist rates and stuff like that here shortly, but, um, what else can you tell us about the .223 garron?

Garren Meyers (08:41):
So basically it came around, uh, because the military wanted a small caliber, high velocity, uh, round. So, uh, couple guys out there started testing the 222, um, from Remington and basically ended up coming out with the .223. Um, I think Winchester and Remington both got on the project, on the project originally, but Remington ultimately, uh, came out with the .223 rem. And like I said earlier, it was based off the 55 grain round. Uh, they wanted something over 3000 feet a second. And originally, um, I guess we took it into combat Vietnam. And at that time we still had guys using 762x51 308 mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and they had some issues, you know, with their original M 16 s and, uh, guys didn't really like that caliber in the jungle just because, you know, that velocity hit and brush, it's really not a brush caliber. Right. Uh, but fortunately it's to the test of time and eventually, you know, trickle down to the civilian market where you got your environment hunters, your groundhog hunters, your coyo hunters, and I mean, still today most of your predators hunters out there are using a .223 or something very similar,

Justin Boyd (09:41):
Vast majority. Yeah. It's, I'd agree with

Hunter (09:42):
That. Yeah. Because it, it's is very versatile. Um, and I mean, I guess we can talk, uh, about bullet weights and, and twist straights too, because they've, they've come a long way too. I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, generally, you know, um, if take a pick, anybody wanna get into twist rates, go, go ahead and jump right in here. Sure. Go right ahead Justin.

Justin Boyd (09:59):
Yeah. Manam, um, most of your, most of your like 5.56 car beans that are available on the market today are gonna be a one and seven simply because A one and seven will best accommodate all of your projectile weights between like 55 up to 77 and maybe even a little heavier than 77. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that gives the end user like endless options when it comes to practice ammo, defensive ammo, you know, target ammo, stuff like that. So,

Zach Schebish (10:29):
So just to add that Justin's point, when you're shopping for an AR and you know, you might be wondering, man, what's the difference between this $700 Smith and Wesson and this $2,000, Daniel? Uh, when you're shopping for ar, it'll say the twist rate on the barrel typically. Yeah. And a lot of your cheaper, more entry level ars are gonna be a one in nine twist. So that one in nine twist is gonna do great for like, you know,FN.223 55 grain, uh, M 1 93, but it might, you're gonna see a significant drop in performance with a heavier bullet. Well, Justin was saying, you know, with a one in seven twist all your premium manufacturers like FN, Daniel, uh, BCM, Colt,

Hunter (11:10):
L wrc Oh yeah.

Zach Schebish (11:12):
Lmrc, you're, you're never gonna see a one in nine twist on, you know, an LMT or a bcm, but you're, you know, for the money, um, one in seven twist is really what you're after for most

Hunter (11:22):
People. Yeah. Cuz it's the, it is the most versatile way to go because you're gonna want something that's gonna be able to, you know, accommodate all those different barrel, uh, bullet weights. Right. If your,

Zach Schebish (11:31):
Uh, if your gun says one in nine twist, it's not a mill spec gun. So that's goes into like the mill spec question too, where like all the military barrels are gonna have that one in seven,

Hunter (11:40):
But if you do have a one and nine twist, um, you know, typically, or ideally your 55 grain stuff is probably gonna work the

Justin Boyd (11:49):
Best there. There's still quite a few good options in that category. Sure. I mean, Barnes makes a 55 grand tsx. Oh yeah. That is absolutely great.

Hunter (11:57):
Nasty

Justin Boyd (11:58):
Very, yeah, nasty one, I mean, a 3000 plus foot per second bullet that's gonna hold together when it hits something is ideal for the coyote, coyote hunter, or even somebody looking to use it for soft defensee. Yep. So, right.

Hunter (12:11):
Yep. And, um, you know, when, you know, you get, uh, primarily what you see in the, the NATO stuff is the 62 grain. That's, that, that's the NATO bullet weight mm-hmm. <affirmative>, is that, is that correct?

Justin Boyd (12:22):
Yeah, the, uh, I think like the standard issue, the M 8 55 A one, like the standard issue military ball round right now is a 62 grand projectile. Yeah.

Hunter (12:30):
Yeah. So the, the, the number designation there, um, 8 58 XM 8 55 mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then you got XM 1 93 mm-hmm. <affirmative> XM 1 93 would be your 55 grain. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> 8 55 is your 62 grain, typically green tip. Yep. Um, what's up with green tip? There's

Justin Boyd (12:47):
A steel penetrator in that round. Um, for any customers listening, that's a lot of the reason why we typically won't allow it at ranges. Uh, it just taking the risk with a penetrator and making it through the berm is just not, not something that, uh, we want to contend with and not something you wanna contend with either. So yeah. As long as you stick to 55 grain projectiles, you're good. Indoor or outdoor, um, 8 55 is great for stashing, you know, it's great for planing away at paper outside, but, um,

Hunter (13:20):
Shoots the same. I mean, its gonna, it's gonna, it, it's basically gonna shoot the same, uh, you know, some, I don't know. I've, I've never really tested my Daniel, um, but I I'm sure it shoots 60 twos just as good as the 50 fives. Um, I know it, I know it nails 60 nines, man. I mean it loves 60 nine's. The heavy stuff

Justin Boyd (13:39):
69 is a, uh, that's a money bullet weight. Yeah,

Hunter (13:41):
For sure. Yeah. Um, so we talked about, you know, what would happen, uh, you know, shooting a .223, I mean shooting a 5.56 and a .223 chamber, you know, cuz typically a lot of your bolt action guns now are gonna be chambered for .223, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, it's very rare that you find a bolt action chamber in 5.56. I think in fact, Ruger, they do American

Justin Boyd (14:09):
Mossberg. They a patriot too. That's

Hunter (14:11):
Right. Mossberg does the Patriot too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, you know, for, for somebody that wants to, to kind of mimic what you're doing in a gas gun to a bolt gun, that's, that's a good option because they're both good shooting rifles. Oh, yeah. Um, but typically a lot of your bolt guns are gonna be chambered in .223. .223 Remington. Yep. Um, what about, uh, what else, uh, what else did we miss? Did we miss anything between these two that, uh,

Garren Meyers (14:34):
I think we hit it. I mean, the biggest, the big, like you said, the biggest difference can be your pressure and then just the slightly thicker case on uh mm-hmm. <affirmative> your 5.56

Zach Schebish (14:41):
And, uh, price, typically you can get .223 a little bit cheaper than 5.56.

Hunter (14:46):
That's a very good point. It is a

Zach Schebish (14:47):
Very good point. Yeah. The, the main important thing there, uh, any customers listening is the most important thing is that you actually shoot and you actually train. So let's be real. If we're shooting paper, uh, out to a hundred, none of this really matters. Um, if you're shooting for speed up close, uh, just buy as much cheap .223, uh, as you can mm-hmm. <affirmative> and don't worry about it and get the time on range

Justin Boyd (15:10):
For, for anybody listening. If, if you really want to get a realistic idea as to what your AR 15 is capable of from an accuracy perspective, pick up some heavy for caliber OTMs and you know, shoot a group at a hundred and see what it does. Yeah. I guarantee you'll be very surprised by the

Hunter (15:26):
Results and you know, you can find that just about anywhere, um, in any brand. Well, any good, uh, uh, burgers are prime example Burger, their 77 OTM is Oh yeah. Is a lights out brown man. It's like buying custom reloaded ammo. It really, it's really good. And, and the price is not bad at all.

Justin Boyd (15:45):
It's very, very consistent. It's very clean burning. Yep. Um, the federal gold medal match 73 Grain. Yes. I've tried those personally and they're awesome. Yep. Uh,

Hunter (15:54):
Anything Black Hills,

Justin Boyd (15:56):
B h a? Yeah, B HHA is awesome. Um, I m i razor core is awesome. As far as other stuff we have in store, the, especially for guys that are like bawling on a budget, any of the horny match rounds. Oh yeah. Horny Frontier Hatch match rounds, they're great. Yep. There's a, uh, there's a group stapled up on our, uh, bulletin board over ATRs that I shot. It's easily sub inch and I shot that with like a 14 five of the one to eight. Nice. I mean they're, yeah.

Zach Schebish (16:21):
And boards 14 fives Barrel has probably seen better days. <laugh>. So

Justin Boyd (16:25):
That thing, it's got, I've got like 20,000 rounds through the pipe. I mean that thing

Zach Schebish (16:29):
That, that thing's starting out.

Hunter (16:30):
So when you shoot groups, how many, how many rounds do you shoot in a group?

Justin Boyd (16:33):
Typically? I'll do five. Five. Okay. Um, for like any sort of like zero confirmation stuff or anything like that, if, if I'm really trying to like, maximize my time and save ammo, I'll do three. Yeah. But, uh, I, I just feel like five is,

Hunter (16:48):
Five is very, I, that's, that's typically what I would say is is your your your best. Uh, some guys would would say that 10 10 is where where you need to be. And I mean, you could almost have another whole podcast on trying to figure that out. Oh yeah, for sure. But, uh, no, five is a great, is a great way to go. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but like you bring up a good point. If you haven't tried it, you, you really should. Mm-hmm. And I mean, and any of these brands just, you know, whenever you're here or wherever, you know, pick up a box and try it because a lot of people think that an AR is just one of those things that I'm gonna buy it just cuz the government says I can't mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I can't have it and I'm just gonna squirrel it away or just keep it for doomsday or whatever. But no man, that those things can shoot man. It's, and even if it's simple, even if it's an entry level gun, see what it's capable of, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> try it out, even if it's a one in nine twist barrel versus a one in seven. Well those,

Zach Schebish (17:37):
Those one and nine

Hunter (17:38):
They shoot man. Yeah.

Zach Schebish (17:38):
They'll, they'll still, they'll still

Hunter (17:40):
Grew. They will rock and roll. Don't

Garren Meyers (17:41):
Doubt about it. Dude, I used to have a sport too that shot lights out. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But, you know, then I stepped up in the Daniel world and there's no going back.

Hunter (17:48):
Yeah, that's true. Once you got gun with a

Justin Boyd (17:49):
Data barrel in it, it's, uh, yeah, I've been very, very impressed with mine. I'm very happy with it.

Hunter (17:54):
Um, so we, we mentioned this ammo, we mentioned Black Hills, especially Black Hills has kind of been, uh, non-existent. Um, and there's a reason for that.

Justin Boyd (18:03):
Big reason <laugh>,

Hunter (18:04):
Um, because, uh, you know, black Hills supplies a ton of ammo to the federal government mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, you know,

Justin Boyd (18:11):
Specifically to the units that are actually being deployed. Right.

Hunter (18:14):
And, and that's a, that's when it's very difficult to get your hands on Black Hills ammo in the last few years. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> we'll say, we'll go back as far as 2019. Um, we just recently got a bunch of 75 bow tail hollow points in, I believe we

Justin Boyd (18:28):
Did. I forgot about

Hunter (18:28):
That. So they, that was good. No, the price has gone up on that stuff just like it has in the 5.56. Oh yeah. In fact, I think, I can't remember if what we had came in as 5.56 or .223, but either way

Justin Boyd (18:40):
I think it's .223. Yeah, I

Hunter (18:41):
Think it is .223

Justin Boyd (18:42):
Regardless of the fact I would still try it in your 5.56.

Hunter (18:44):
Great. Yeah, it's great stuff. But, so there's, there's obviously something going on in Eastern Europe right now that's, that's affecting, uh, the ammo world mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, whether you, whether you believe it or whether you know it or not, but yeah. Yes. 5.56 ammo, .223 ammo recently has been, uh, expensive. It has not really come down in price like we've seen not mill in 22 and a lot of the other calibers. But, um, what's your guys take on this? What have you guys been hearing?

Justin Boyd (19:15):
Oh man. Um, I think Zack's got, probably got the best input on that.

Zach Schebish (19:21):
Uh, how do I put this? Um, probably the most brutal, uh, conflict of any of our lifetimes is raging right now. And, uh, wars take up a lot of ammo, all kinds. Um, the thing is, so, uh, both sides are predominantly using Soviet surplus rounds, but due to, uh, uncle Sam, uh, Ukraine is getting a lot of help. Uh, and some of that help is in the form of small arms and ammo. So a lot of shipments are getting sent to people actually using 'em. Mm-hmm.

Hunter (19:52):
<affirmative>. Yeah. I mean I've, I've, I've heard that the, the surplus that that Iron Military uses here is getting depleted because of what's going there, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which then in turn requires moral orders to Federal Black Hills, whoever. Uh, and then also what happened with the Lake City plant, uh, Justin, I mean,

Justin Boyd (20:11):
Um, months ago Joe Biden told Lake City essentially that they had to shut down commercial sales for the most part. Um, I'm sure most of you that shoot and have been shooting ar for a while understand what Lake City means to that particular segment of the gun community. They supply a lot of 5.56, um, the overwhelming majority of it. And they haven't been making any, which is a lot of the reason why you see less of it on the shelf

Hunter (20:35):
Or they haven't been making any for, for us. For us, for for us. Yeah, exactly. Um, cuz that's a, it's been a, it's been a long time since I've seen bulk mm-hmm. <affirmative>, lake City stuff. I've, I've seen stuff on, I mean, follow the stuff online on a lot of the ammo district, um, uh, distributors or ammo, uh, ammo, sales and websites and stuff. And you see stuff from like ppu, privy, partisan, PMC uhc, pmcs been pumping it out.

Justin Boyd (21:00):
They've been carrying the team, man. They really have. Yeah. I've been shooting a lot of PMC

Hunter (21:03):
And I'm gonna tell you this couple, let's, let's give a little shout out to p c Exac ammo. Yeah, it's great. Excellent stuff, man. I mean,

Justin Boyd (21:09):
Sealed primer crimped

Hunter (21:11):
Really good stuff. And they even do, they do a nice, they do a good 62 grain load as well. I haven't seen 'em do anything heavy.

Zach Schebish (21:18):
Boy. Uh, not to interrupt, but Boyd, weren't you messing around with the SIG 77?

Justin Boyd (21:23):
Yes. Um, how,

Zach Schebish (21:24):
How, how's that doing? Because we do seem to get some of that in.

Justin Boyd (21:27):
Yeah, I mean, it shoots a, shoots an inch outta my 14 five.

Hunter (21:31):
Nice. Okay.

Justin Boyd (21:32):
Yeah, it's good stuff. It's on the price of your side, but yeah. Okay.

Zach Schebish (21:35):
Minus 77 grand is gonna be Yeah,

Hunter (21:37):
Yeah,

Justin Boyd (21:37):
Yeah. It's, it performs as consistently as I would expect, like a 77 grand, 5.56. I wanna

Garren Meyers (21:43):
Say we had some thousand round packs a year, uh, was it last week? And I think, what were those going like

Justin Boyd (21:47):
6 79, 6 29, 6 29,

Hunter (21:50):
That Right. I mean, but that was, that's XM right now, wasn't it? Or was it? Uh, it's

Justin Boyd (21:54):
The good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's the good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. No

Hunter (21:57):
Doubt. Well, that's the thing, I mean, I've been kind of waiting for it to come down cause I want to get more, um, I feel bad shooting any of what I have right now, but I probably got too much right now. But anyway, um,

Zach Schebish (22:08):
You sound any,

Hunter (22:09):
Huh? I'm not, you sound

Zach Schebish (22:10):
No,

Hunter (22:11):
You're not business. But I, I'm, I'm also hesitant not to buy right now. And here's why I think the situation's gonna get worse because the, uh, from what I understand, the fighting in, in, in Ukraine is gonna really accelerate in the springtime and the summertime. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who knows how bad it's gonna get over there. Um, and if, if we're not seeing a lot of it right now in three months, what's the price of this stuff gonna be? Right. Or what's the availability? I

Garren Meyers (22:40):
Mean, it wasn't that long ago we were paying 140 cents a round. Yeah. I mean, closer to 30 cents a round

Justin Boyd (22:44):
For a little while. Yeah.

Garren Meyers (22:45):
And you know, now we're talking,

Hunter (22:47):
Well now dealer price is as high as 48 to 51 cents a round. Right. And this is just ball amma. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's still up that high. And it's, uh, and, and a lot of people don't believe that, but it really is. And I think, uh, our buyer, I think our buyer, Andy, I think even think he turns down a lot of stuff sometimes he just says, I'm, that's too much. I'm not paying that much for it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't blame him, but, you know, capital, we, we, we may look back on that in too much in any way and we should have bought it, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. So we'll see what happens with that. Um, and that's, that's another rabbit hole. We, we could just crawl down and maybe never come up from <laugh>. No.

Justin Boyd (23:20):
You could legitimately do a podcast on ammo scares. Yeah, no doubt about it. You can definitely

Hunter (23:24):
Do it. Yeah. So I guess to recap, um, let's do a quick recap on 2, 2, 3, 5, 5, 6. What's the difference?

Justin Boyd (23:31):
Um, not a whole, not a whole ton of difference. Don't shoot full power 5.56 and your .223 chambered gun. Yeah. And don't bring 8 55 into our range green tip into our range. Please, if you would.

Zach Schebish (23:44):
Yeah. Yeah. One, one more tip with the green tip guys is, uh, you know, I, I have arranged in my backyard now and I have steel targets. If you guys have steel targets and you want them to last for a considerable amount of time, don't shoot green tip at them under a hundred yards. Yeah. Um, generally, yeah. I mean, boy, how many targets have you and I turned in the Swiss cheese over the years? Quite a

Hunter (24:04):
Few. Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Schebish (24:05):
So, um, honestly, if you're, if you're a customer and you're, if you wanna know what kind of 5.56 is reasonably priced, extremely effective and used by the military for like 50 years, honestly my vote goes to M 1 93. Uh, because it's ch it's relatively inexpensive. It's accurate. And you won't destroy the steel targets in your backyard with there

Hunter (24:27):
Go 55 go.

Zach Schebish (24:28):
Yeah. And if you're just shooting paper, man, just save some money and get .223. It's not gonna make that much of a difference. One thing I will say also is make sure you just, cuz it's 55 grand don't zero, uh, like gun that you trust your life with with .223, if you're gonna keep your mags loaded with,

Hunter (24:47):
Uh, with 5.56. With

Zach Schebish (24:48):
5.56. Yeah. Because, uh, you know, it might only be a couple inches, but a couple inches is a hundred yards can be the difference between Sure. A hit and not a hit. Right?

Hunter (24:55):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. There's gotta be some point

Zach Schebish (24:57):
Be, uh, be just be aware of what you zero your gun with and then, uh, what you're actually

Hunter (25:02):
Shooting. And if you're not sure about any of this, you can just come on up here and talk to any of us. We can, we'll get you squared away. I would love to. I could have a conversation about this sort of stuff for hours. That's right man. We could, but I wish we, we just don't have it. Darren's gotta get to the firehouse holding him up. Some cats

Garren Meyers (25:17):
In the trees, man. Gotta go get 'em. <laugh>. Someone's gotta do it. <laugh>.

Zach Schebish (25:21):
Everybody loves

Garren Meyers (25:22):
Firefighters. Hey man, we eat, you know, we eat ice cream cake and go to bed at night. It's great. <laugh>.

Hunter (25:25):
Can't beat that. All right, well, uh, hey, thanks for being here today guys, and thanks for doing this. Uh, it's one of those, uh, it's one of those podcasts where, uh, you know, it's, it's one of those things where people, you know, have always wondered what the difference is or they know there's a difference, they're just not quite sure and they don't not quite understand it. It's not, it's not as, uh, complex as it sounds or as some people can make it sound. Um, it took us 29 minutes, I think to to, to un unravel it, but hey, it's all right. It was good. Good conversation. Maybe we summed that up pretty good. Yeah. All right. Well, uh, thanks for listening and, um, don't forget to, uh, check us [email protected] Guys, thanks again for being here. Thanks for having us. Thank you, hunter. Yep.

Narrator (26:07):
Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast, hunting, fishing, and all things outdoors. It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle like, and subscribe to the Greentop Outdoors Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and learn more about [email protected]